5816  No place left to dance

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: RonTango <rontango@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: tango-l@mit.edu

----- Original Message ----

> From: Larry Richelli <larryrichy@yahoo.com>
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 12:19:50 PM

> >Traditional
> tango dancers do not mind to have separated milongas, as most of them
> consider that Nuevo dancers disrupt their >dancing.
>
> This is good. I just wish we could have separate festivals. For instance, Denver
> is advertised as a close embrace festival but man, it is not longer this way.
> You have two or three guys that can dance open nuevo pretty good and 20 other
> guy that want to be just like them that can't. This has really screwed up this
> festival and the line of dance, even though they have an alt milonga on one
> afternoon.

I've been to Denver twice, in 2004 and 2005, and to San Diego in 2007 (same festival concept). Navigation was pretty good in Denver the times I went, but some of the locals in San Diego didn't realize it was a festival for social dancing rather than showing how well you could weave quickly in and out of the line of dance. Now San Diego 2010 has 2 prominent nuevo instructors scheduled. One has to wonder if Denver will follow suit. It's beginning to look like there may no longer be any festivals in the US where a tango milonguero dancer can find solitude away from the nuevo invasion. It looks like we will have no other option than to go to Buenos Aires to find milongas with a supportive social dancing atmosphere. That wouldn't be bad if it weren't so far away.

Ron

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:09:22 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>

As the organizer for the Denver & San Diego festivals, I can reassure
you that the concept of festivals for social dancing remains: "By
Dancers; for Dancers". The milongas are arranged for social dancing:
good djs, rectangular dance floor with tables and chairs around the
periphery, tandas of traditional social tango, and cortinas for
partner changing.

For Larry: Navigation is never as good as we would like; It's not
really as bad as we fear; there are often a few loose cannons;
tolerance helps.

For Ron: Homer Ladas is famous as a skillful nuevo dancer. He is also
extremely good at navigation and social dancing. Jaimes Friedgen is
not far behind. Brigitta Winkler has studied extensively with Gustavo,
has a long history at performance dance, and was instrumental in the
introduction of milonguero to the US and Europe.

So, yes, all three are famous for their nuevo talent, yet all three
are extremely good social dancers.

LOOK.

There are good navigators and bad navigators, no matter what style.
I'm well known as a milonguero teacher and organizer, but the
navigation issue is about social dancing, and context (class, stage,
practice, milonga), not style. The good nuevo dancers all know how to
dance socially and courteously in the milonga context.

I agree that the loose cannons can be irritating, but I have noticed a
steady maturation of skill at the festivals over the years.

I've also noticed as steady decline of navigation skill and courtesy
in Buenos Aires milongas since I first went there almost 15 years ago.


On Oct 19, 2009, at 10:37 PM, RonTango wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Larry Richelli <larryrichy@yahoo.com>
>>
>> This is good. I just wish we could have separate festivals. For
>> instance, Denver
>> is advertised as a close embrace festival but man, it is not longer
>> this way.
>> You have two or three guys that can dance open nuevo pretty good
>> and 20 other
>> guy that want to be just like them that can't. This has really
>> screwed up this
>> festival and the line of dance, even though they have an alt
>> milonga on one
>> afternoon.
>
> I've been to Denver twice, in 2004 and 2005, and to San Diego in
> 2007 (same festival concept). Navigation was pretty good in Denver
> the times I went, but some of the locals in San Diego didn't realize
> it was a festival for social dancing rather than showing how well
> you could weave quickly in and out of the line of dance. Now San
> Diego 2010 has 2 prominent nuevo instructors scheduled. One has to
> wonder if Denver will follow suit. It's beginning to look like there
> may no longer be any festivals in the US where a tango milonguero
> dancer can find solitude away from the nuevo invasion. It looks like
> we will have no other option than to go to Buenos Aires to find
> milongas with a supportive social dancing atmosphere. That wouldn't
> be bad if it weren't so far away.
>
> Ron

Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org
Denver, CO 80207

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:40:38 EDT
From: HBBOOGIE1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: stermitz@tango.org, tango-l@mit.edu

Tom
We have attended all of the San Diego Festivals and look forward to Dec
31st. 2009.
We enjoy the music and the way you organize the floor and of course the
opportunity to dance with strangers from all over the country.
This year we are putting our trust in you as the organizer to provide a
respectful floor so we can all enjoy the traditional milongas ?By Dancers for
Dancers? that has always been your hallmark.
Respectfully
David y Gloria


In a message dated 10/19/2009 11:10:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
stermitz@tango.org writes:
As the organizer for the Denver & San Diego festivals, I can reassure
you that the concept of festivals for social dancing remains: "By
Dancers; for Dancers". The milongas are arranged for social dancing:
good djs, rectangular dance floor with tables and chairs around the
periphery, tandas of traditional social tango, and cortinas for
partner changing.

For Larry: Navigation is never as good as we would like; It's not
really as bad as we fear; there are often a few loose cannons;
tolerance helps.

For Ron: Homer Ladas is famous as a skillful nuevo dancer. He is also
extremely good at navigation and social dancing. Jaimes Friedgen is
not far behind. Brigitta Winkler has studied extensively with Gustavo,
has a long history at performance dance, and was instrumental in the
introduction of milonguero to the US and Europe.

So, yes, all three are famous for their nuevo talent, yet all three
are extremely good social dancers.

LOOK.

There are good navigators and bad navigators, no matter what style.
I'm well known as a milonguero teacher and organizer, but the
navigation issue is about social dancing, and context (class, stage,
practice, milonga), not style. The good nuevo dancers all know how to
dance socially and courteously in the milonga context.

I agree that the loose cannons can be irritating, but I have noticed a
steady maturation of skill at the festivals over the years.

I've also noticed as steady decline of navigation skill and courtesy
in Buenos Aires milongas since I first went there almost 15 years ago.


On Oct 19, 2009, at 10:37 PM, RonTango wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Larry Richelli <larryrichy@yahoo.com>
>>
>> This is good. I just wish we could have separate festivals. For
>> instance, Denver
>> is advertised as a close embrace festival but man, it is not longer
>> this way.
>> You have two or three guys that can dance open nuevo pretty good
>> and 20 other
>> guy that want to be just like them that can't. This has really
>> screwed up this
>> festival and the line of dance, even though they have an alt
>> milonga on one
>> afternoon.
>
> I've been to Denver twice, in 2004 and 2005, and to San Diego in
> 2007 (same festival concept). Navigation was pretty good in Denver
> the times I went, but some of the locals in San Diego didn't realize
> it was a festival for social dancing rather than showing how well
> you could weave quickly in and out of the line of dance. Now San
> Diego 2010 has 2 prominent nuevo instructors scheduled. One has to
> wonder if Denver will follow suit. It's beginning to look like there
> may no longer be any festivals in the US where a tango milonguero
> dancer can find solitude away from the nuevo invasion. It looks like
> we will have no other option than to go to Buenos Aires to find
> milongas with a supportive social dancing atmosphere. That wouldn't
> be bad if it weren't so far away.
>
> Ron

Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org
Denver, CO 80207



Tango-L mailing list

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sandhill Crane <grus.canadensis@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>, Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>

By the way, Tom, thanks for organizing the festivals,
I know it is a lot of work and I appreciate it a lot.

--- On Tue, 10/20/09, Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org> wrote:

> For Larry: Navigation is never as good as we would like;
> It's not really as bad as we fear; there are often a few loose
> cannons; tolerance helps.

I don't "fear" bad navigation. It was simply shoved in my
face at every milonga at the last Denver festival.

I think I've had my fill of tolerance. If I steer away
from some guy doing his 96 varieties of ganchos, it
gives him more room, and some other poor fool is stuck
next to him instead of me. That doesn't really improve
the situation.

> The good nuevo dancers all know how to
> dance socially and courteously in the milonga context.

No, they DON'T. The students of Homer, Gustavo, etc learn
what the masters think is important -- namely, how to do
lots of visually interesting tricks. How to cope with
other people on the floor is secondary, at best.
How can we tell? Their students DO NOT learn that.

Thanks again for all your work to promote tango.
It really benefits a lot of people, myself among them.

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:49:32 -0400
From: Sergey Kazachenko <syarzhuk@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: Sandhill Crane <grus.canadensis@yahoo.com>
Cc: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>, Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<ebb7980c0910200849j6bf9a811o925673253c08340e@mail.gmail.com>

> If I steer away from some guy doing his 96 varieties of ganchos

It's 98 according to Naveira (
https://www.danceoftheheart.com/naveirainterview.htm ).
However, it's entirely possible that he only teaches 96.
It could be that the other two are Dim Mak ganchos and can be done only once...

Sergey
May you be forever touched by His Noodly Appendage... (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster )

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:32:21 -0500
From: michael <2tango99@gmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<e7bfb9e80910201132i37f5300cqecd6ff21957900a5@mail.gmail.com>

I felt very dejected last year at a small festival that had been my
favorite, (I still appreciate all the extraordinary effort that the
organizer puts into it)



My problem: I had to spend too much time and effort just keeping my
followers safe from some errant leaders apparently seeking attention.



I remember cutting one evening short because I just became too irritated
after having to present my back to two men who were speeding AGAINST the
line of dance, just to protect my partner.



I still treasure the shirt ?Real Men Dance Close? that I picked up the
first time I attended the festival; it just did not seem to fit anymore.



Michael

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: RonTango <rontango@rocketmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: tango-l@mit.edu

----- Original Message ----

> From: Larry Richelli <larryrichy@yahoo.com>
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 12:19:50 PM

> >Traditional
> tango dancers do not mind to have separated milongas, as most of them
> consider that Nuevo dancers disrupt their >dancing.
>

? It's beginning to look like there may no longer be any festivals in the US
where a tango milonguero dancer can find solitude away from the nuevo
invasion. It looks like we will have no other option than to go to Buenos
Aires to find milongas with a supportive social dancing atmosphere. That
wouldn't be bad if it weren't so far away.

Ron

Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:08:42 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] No place left to dance

Maybe you'd have to attend in order to understand, instead of
imagining that a single youtube carries the whole truth.

We have seven milongas to try, each with a somewhat different focus.
All of them are oriented to social dancing, i.e. non-show tango. They
are pretty crowded, so large moves aren't very appropriate. Obviously
you can't control everybody, so it is certainly possible to find a
video of someone doing a big boleo at one of these festivals.

If you wanted to sit out one of the milongas, you could. Or, you are
free not to come at all.


On Oct 24, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Chris, UK wrote:

>> As the organizer for the Denver & San Diego festivals, I can reassure
>> you that the concept of festivals for social dancing remains: "By
>> Dancers; for Dancers".
>
> Please, Tom, explain how your:
>
> https://tango.org/2010sdfest
> The 4th Annual San Diego Tango Festival will be a Southern California
> treat for all tango dancers who love the social tango popular in the
> milongas of Buenos Aires: close, subtle & romantic.
>
> squares with your:
>
> Sat, 3:00 - 07:00, DJ TBA, "Alternative Music Milonga" $15
>
> and the likes of:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI
>
> Or if the nuevo dancing at your festivals is any /less/ antithetic to
> BA-style social tango, please post a video to illustrate.
>
> --
> Chris

Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org
Denver, CO 80207

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:50:31 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Subject: Re: No place left to dance
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>

>We have seven milongas to try, each with a somewhat different focus.
>All of them are oriented to social dancing, i.e. non-show tango

The point being that "alternative music" implies nuevo moves, that terrifies
some traditionalist people and thus causes much debate.

However, if the term "alternative milonga" keeps the traditionalists away,
it gives more room for nuevo.

Sort of a win-win situation then.

:-)

Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:36:26 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <tempehuck@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] No place left to dance
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ecf43f370910261636h77b5125fj966e860919d5dddd@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Chris, UK <tl2@chrisjj.com> wrote:

> > As the organizer for the Denver & San Diego festivals, I can reassure
> > you that the concept of festivals for social dancing remains: "By
> > Dancers; for Dancers".
>
> Please, Tom, explain how your:
>
> https://tango.org/2010sdfest
> The 4th Annual San Diego Tango Festival will be a Southern California
> treat for all tango dancers who love the social tango popular in the
> milongas of Buenos Aires: close, subtle & romantic.
>
> squares with your:
>
> Sat, 3:00 - 07:00, DJ TBA, "Alternative Music Milonga" $15
>
> and the likes of:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9sMTtozZI
>
> Or if the nuevo dancing at your festivals is any /less/ antithetic to
> BA-style social tango, please post a video to illustrate.
>

You're right, Chris, it doesn't square; however, I for one am extremely
grateful that Tom puts on those late afternoon alternative milongas--it
gives some of us the opportunity to take a nice nap up in the hotel room
while the cargo-pants crowd gets all that alternative music and those wild
fantasia moves out of their systems instead of bugging the night dj to play
that nonsense later when we're dancing serious social tango to real tango
music in a milonga that actually does justice to Tom's description that you
quoted above.

Huck