2591  Ocho Crotado, throught the eyes of Maria Cieri

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:36:04 EDT
From: TimmyTango@AOL.COM
Subject: Ocho Crotado, throught the eyes of Maria Cieri

This past weekend I was privileged to spend much time with Maria Cieri in
Pittsburgh. While eating breakfast, Maria gave everyone present a little History
lesson on tango and particularly the ocho Cortado.
Her talks keep everyone's entire attention, and I was surprised when she
spoke about the Ocho Cortado. What I got out of the translations was in the 40
plus years that she danced with Rudolfo, Rudolfo never ever lead Maria in the
Ocho Cortado. Maria told us that 50 years ago she and Rudolfo would dance at all
the popular Milongas downtown. And that there was one very small barrio where
very affluent people would dance extremely close. A style she called Kakero
(spelling my not be correct).
and this was the birthplace of the Ocho cortado. People in the popular
milonga felt that this group danced very vulgar and they didn't like these people
coming to their milonga.
Maria gave credit to Susana Miller for bringing this step back to life 4 or 5
years ago even though at one point in time the ocho cortado wasn't
appreciated by all.
Thank you Susanna for teaching us this step again. I love it.

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:46:26 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ocho Crotado, throught the eyes of Maria Cieri

Timmy Tango writes:

> This past weekend I was privileged to spend much time
> with Maria Cieri in Pittsburgh. [...]
>
> Maria told us that 50 years ago she and Rudolfo would
> dance at all the popular Milongas downtown. And that
> there was one very small barrio where very affluent
> people would dance extremely close. A style she called
> Kakero (spelling my not be correct). And this was the
> birthplace of the Ocho cortado. [...]
>
> Maria gave credit to Susana Miller for bringing this step
> back to life 4 or 5 years ago even though at one point in
> time the ocho cortado wasn't appreciated by all.
>
> Thank you Susanna for teaching us this step again. I love it.

Hmmm. Ten Argentines, ten opinions, be it on how to dance,
what a style is called, where it came from, etc. I take 'em
all with a grain of salt; this chaos is one of tango's major
appeals for many of us. Sometimes I've noticed similar
confusion about origins of other dances as well, many not
nearly as old as tango.

Anyway, here's yet another salt-grain candidate offered
(without any judgment as to value) for your pleasure, from an
interview with Fabian (https://totango.net/salas2.html):

One night Gustavo came up with this idea of calling
the Ocho Cortado. Or the cut Ocho. It was a mistake--
the concept was a mistake. He invented it, the
Milongueros are using it, and they don't even know
where it came from. And Gustavo is saying, I created
a name that now people are calling Ocho Milonguero.
Ocho Cortado is a mistake - really, the cut ocho is
a cut turn...a reverse of direction, because you go
front, open, and then you go to the other side. It's
not that you are cutting the ocho anywhere, it's just
you are making a turn to one side and then you start
to the other side. So you have a front step and an
open step. That's what an ocho cortado is.

But after years, somebody grabbed that...for example
Susana Miller, because she was taking classes with
Gustavo, and she came up with his terminology, ocho
cortado, and she taught this all over the world. And
now the greater community of dancers has a concept that
we brought out, that is wrong. (Chuckles).

Huck

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 00:47:37 -0400
From: Miamidances@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Ocho Crotado, throught the eyes of Maria Cieri

Susana Miller has shown the Ocho Crotado when she was in Miami. My first introduction to the Ocho Crotado was in 1997 at the Ohio Tangofeast. I don't remember which teacher showed it, but I was introduced to it at the Ohio Tango festival that Pichi successfully organized in 1997.

Tango Forever

Randy in Miami

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 22:56:27 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Ocho Crotado, throught the eyes of Maria Cieri

> Ocho Cortado is a mistake - really, the cut ocho is
> a cut turn...a reverse of direction, And
> now the greater community of dancers has a concept that
> we brought out, that is wrong. (Chuckles).
>
> Huck
>

I think, emphasizing, that the ocho is a cut turn, is a very important
point. I was taught that way, and got the idea very quickly ( I knew the
giro/molinete already at that time). But I have seen a number of teachers,
who didn't mention the turn, and the students ended up leading the woman one
step forward and back into the cross. No idea of a curve or turn involved at
all. Their lead became really pushy, abrupt and out of character. And the
women kept falling over their own feet.

Astrid