3565  photos and videos of the milongueros

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:44:42 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: photos and videos of the milongueros

Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:34:19 -0700
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: photos and videos of the milongueros

With all my respect, Janis,
not everything is on sale in this world. Let us not to be cheap asking for a
buck to get photographed.
In accordance with freedom of speech, everyone can take pictures of
everything they want anywhere if it is not forbidden by law. Are you going
to like this person or not, are you going to punch him in the nose or not is
up to you. Through him out of milonga, if you can, brake his camera, kill
him, but he has the right to record what happens around him.
Even more. He can publish this pictures, video, sound, anything if it has
documentary or scientific value and designated as such not paying anybody a
penny and not asking for a permission. Only if a publisher uses a recognized
(!) part of the photograph in a poster, advertisement, action movie, the
person photographed is considered to be a model and has the right to request
reimbursement. But not until it actually published in non-documentary
fashion.

No doubt, video and photo recording is extremely disturbing. I do not like
it too. But the photographs are tremendously useful for us. They have utmost
value for all people in the world, and I think deep in your soul you agree
with me. This is a problem which never can be solved, we just have to live
with it.

In this time of shameless advertising mostly misleading people to the greedy
advantage of promoters, video of a real thing has great human value. I
believe it is better to thank those photographers who struggle for truth.
Ultimately they act to our all interest, and we have to learn to appreciate
their very difficult, and mostly thankless work.

Tango world is changed with these photos and that justifies couple of
disappointing minutes you and your friends had. I am sure it will be not the
same if dancers knew about the recording. May be now they can be satisfied
knowing how much we appreciate their images! Thank you, thank you!

Igor Polk

Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 01:42:04 -0700
From: Frank Lupo <flupo@PASADENALAW.COM>
Subject: Re: photos and videos of the milongueros

I had previously seen the photographs in question on
the Internet pages of the photographer in question.
The writings that go along with his photos would have
one believe that he not only had the permission to
photograph the milongueros, but that he had their
cooperation and respect. If the story that Janis has
relayed is representative of this photographer's
manner of capturing the images of the dancers at the
milonga's then it is fair to say that his website and
stories are a fraud, regardless of the value of the
photographs. If it is true that this photographer has
no respect for his subjects or the policies of the
milongas he attends then I would say he has no respect
for the tango. It also appears that he has no respect
for the truth and as such should not be considered as
a true documentarian.

Irrespective of whether his subjects have a right to
reimbursement, there are other ethical and legal
issues involved. Freedom of speech is not necessarily
the freedom to photograph. The subject is a little
more complex than Igor's post would have one believe.
For one these dancers were not dancing in the street
or in a public square, they were in privately run
establishments where they had paid admission to be
present and to dance. When you purchase your ticket to
attend a milonga you have entered into a contract to
abide by the house rules and if those rules prohibit
photography then you are in violation of the contract,
your right of attendance can be revoked and you can be
denied readmittance. If you go to the theatre to see a
live performance you do not have the right to
photograph the performance or to publish the
photographs without permission. The theatre can
confiscate your film and your camera. In the case of a
movie theatre you can actually be arrested and
prosecuted for recording the film being exhibited.

As for noncommercial use I believe modern
anthropologists have an ethical code that requires one
to obtain the permission of one's subject to record
them. I believe that was the main thrust of Janis'
post, that this photographer was exploiting his
subjects without their permission, in violation of
their expressed wishes and that he was benefiting from
his use of the photos that he in essence had pirated.
I do not believe her main concern was for
compensation, but rather to express her disdain for
the photographer who appears to be using the
photographs to promote himself as an authority on the
tango with an insider's perspective.
I for one would rather deal with an upfront "greedy
promoter" who was acting in the open for an
acknowledged purpose than someone who steals his
images and then lies to the world about how he
obtained them and about his relationship to his
subjects. Perhaps there is more to this particular
story, but at the moment I feel that I have been
deceived right along with those milongueros.

Frank


--- Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:

> With all my respect, Janis,
> not everything is on sale in this world. Let us not
> to be cheap asking for a
> buck to get photographed.
> In accordance with freedom of speech, everyone can
> take pictures of
> everything they want anywhere if it is not forbidden
> by law. Are you going
> to like this person or not, are you going to punch
> him in the nose or not is
> up to you. Through him out of milonga, if you can,
> brake his camera, kill
> him, but he has the right to record what happens
> around him.