2624  re re re how long?

Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:54:00 -0500
From: Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: re re re how long?

Wow, some really nasty postings flying about on this subject!



I've known a few (only a couple) followers who picked up Argentine Tango
well enough in a "few months" to be considered "good". It's a really
amazing experience, working with women who somehow truly know how to
"follow" from the beginning. But!.....it still takes them several months
to calm down and START "listening", even for those gifted individuals.
And that's just a start.....only the merest of beginnings.



Rick from Portland says """"I can bring a skilled dancer from other
dance venues, up to speed in a month or 2"""....POPPYCOCK
(read;bullshit). Yes, I've worked with followers who, inside of a month
or two, can do the most beautiful boleos, the most elegant ganchos (not
with me!), who look fabulous, who make their leaders look fantastic.
They are the embodiment of dance! Their sinuous bodies teasing even the
best leaders into following them!!!!! But do they know the feeling of
tango? Do they know that tango is from the soul, the heart? And that
tango is not there so that they can make themselves look elegant and
sophisticated??? NO, NO, NO....I don't care how good you are, you can't
learn any sort of passable, True, Argentine, Tango inside of several
years,,,and a few tears,,,,and lots of hard work and introspection.



Argentine Tango is much more than just dancing; much more than just
moves and steps. When I step onto the floor, and can feel a woman
surrender herself to me, even as I surrender myself to her; when I know
that she just wants me to take her to a place she's never been......when
I can feel her heart beating, and then stop beating, and her longing for
a nirvana she's never
experienced.....looking...waiting....expecting....desiring.....When I
can dance the simplest of steps in a manner that makes the finest
follower abandon her preconceptions and immerse herself into the rhythms
produced by my heart beating against hers....completely lose her own
sense of self as I give all of my self to her.
Exploring...reaching....new rhythms...new feelings, now , finally, a
pause and a long, deep breath.....



When a follower progresses to be able to transmit these same feelings
that I feel......then she begins to learn Argentine Tango...as I begin
to learn, and feel. When my partner can feel, and appreciate, and
"absorb", and give back, the sentiments that the music "speaks"; as I
learn to feel, and transmit the feelings that the music produces.....Its
incredibly difficult, requiring such a subtle nuance, that many who seek
it shall never achieve such a plateau. I hope that one day I will
arrive!



And many, many thanks to those out there who appreciate my sentiments,
and even more thanks to those beautiful women who have helped me feel
these feelings! I'm still a "newbie", so I can't wait til I get to
really, really feel what I imagine, and know is possible! Wow!!!!



Rick, best of luck, but remember, this is "Argentine
Tango"......something completely different!



Warm regards to all,



Michael

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:04:53 -0400
From: bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM
Subject: Re: how long?

To Michael, Rick and others...

There is never a specific time to say how long it takes to learn to dance anything or to understand the dance. We are all individual and learn differently and we will also all understand it differently based on our own experiences.

But, I have to support Rick when he claims he can make a dancer good in a short period of time. I don't know Rick, and I don't know how he teaches but it is possible to do what he says if someone has had training of other dance styles and is aware enough of their bodies, emotions and spirit.

I performed at an Argentinian Festival (with 1000's of Argentine's present) two months after learning tango (not something I really wanted to do). Everyone that spoke to me afterwards thought I was Argentine. My partner was Argentine... most people thought he wasn't. Two months later (four months into dancing) I participated in Intermediate and Advanced classes at the Miami Tango Fantasy. Almost all of the master teachers were impressed enough with my dancing to later ask me to dance, something they don't normally do with bad dancers. At that same time a beautiful tango dancer from Argentina asked me to be his partner. By 6 months time, I had earned a lot of respect in the tango community. Now, did I FEEL what I was dancing? Hell yeah. Did I know much about Argentine Tango?...no, but I was learning, and still learning.

I appreciate Junior's comments on him being Brazilian and a respected tango dancer. I get the stereotype here all the time in Miami because I'm a gringa that I shouldn't be able to dance, but I am mistaken all the time for being Argentine or Cuban (for latin dances).

Ethnicity and nationality does not determine the dancer nor the understanding for the dance. It is the individual themselves and being enough in your body, mind and spirit to share it to another for the time of the dance.

Nicole
Miami

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:31:36 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: re re re how long?

If you set your standards low enough, it is very easy to succeed.


On Aug 10, 2004, at 9:54 PM, Michael Figart II wrote:

> I've known a few (only a couple) followers who picked up Argentine
> Tango
> well enough in a "few months" to be considered "good". It's a really
> amazing experience, working with women who somehow truly know how to
> "follow" from the beginning. But!.....it still takes them several
> months
> to calm down and START "listening", even for those gifted individuals.
> And that's just a start.....only the merest of beginnings.
>
>
> Michael

Tom Stermitz
2525 Birch St
Denver, CO 80207
h: 303-388-2560

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:20:21 -0700
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: how long?

I've been thinking about this for a little while.
Because I haven't quite determined the best way to
respond. For me, tango is a feeling. It's in the
music, it's in the expression of the movement, it's in
the embrace.

To learn this takes time. I still have much learning
to do. I do not understand many of the lyrics in the
songs that I dance to. I think, how can I dance, how
can I express this if I don't know what it is about.
Certainly I can express myself, but the music is
something I still to learn.

But another thing is you might as well be asking how
long it takes for someone to be a good lover, a good
artist, a good musician, a good listener. These are
all requirements of being a good tango dancer in my
estimation. There are probably no answers to this
question.

I once asked Graciela Gonzalez about embelishments.
She told me that they must come out of personal
experiences. She was not talking about dance
experience, she was talking about experience in love,
in loss, in dissapointment. She said to me "you are
young" but she said that it didn't matter that the
dance changes with a person's experiences and that
what I draw from now will be different in time, that I
won't hear or think things in the same way as time
passes.

I may be waxing philosophical now, but I think it best
not to measure one's life by means of standards and
proficiencies. The joy of doing something comes from
the doing. Dancing is an art form in which nothing is
created except for the experience. If your goal is to
have a good experience then your outlook can change.
You don't view people as good dancers or bad, but as
potential persons with whom to connect, to share
something with, to learn something about. I don't
expect that every dance that I have will be a good
dance, but I dance them with the intention of making
that connection.

Regards,
Rose
Portland, OR

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:53:34 -0700
From: Jean-Marie Herve Michel <jhmichel@STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: how long?

Like sould being ceated and destroy each moments, that tango last forever


Quoting Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>:

> I've been thinking about this for a little while.
> Because I haven't quite determined the best way to
> respond. For me, tango is a feeling. It's in the
> music, it's in the expression of the movement, it's in
> the embrace.
>
> To learn this takes time. I still have much learning
> to do. I do not understand many of the lyrics in the
> songs that I dance to. I think, how can I dance, how
> can I express this if I don't know what it is about.
> Certainly I can express myself, but the music is
> something I still to learn.
>
> But another thing is you might as well be asking how
> long it takes for someone to be a good lover, a good
> artist, a good musician, a good listener. These are
> all requirements of being a good tango dancer in my
> estimation. There are probably no answers to this
> question.
>
> I once asked Graciela Gonzalez about embelishments.
> She told me that they must come out of personal
> experiences. She was not talking about dance
> experience, she was talking about experience in love,
> in loss, in dissapointment. She said to me "you are
> young" but she said that it didn't matter that the
> dance changes with a person's experiences and that
> what I draw from now will be different in time, that I
> won't hear or think things in the same way as time
> passes.
>
> I may be waxing philosophical now, but I think it best
> not to measure one's life by means of standards and
> proficiencies. The joy of doing something comes from
> the doing. Dancing is an art form in which nothing is
> created except for the experience. If your goal is to
> have a good experience then your outlook can change.
> You don't view people as good dancers or bad, but as
> potential persons with whom to connect, to share
> something with, to learn something about. I don't
> expect that every dance that I have will be a good
> dance, but I dance them with the intention of making
> that connection.
>
> Regards,
> Rose
> Portland, OR
>

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 06:45:44 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: how long?

Razor Girl, you wild Red Rose, again I am awestruck with your lucidity, your
depth, your fluid expression. And I so much appreciate reading your gentle
but so incisive posts. Thank you for sharing. Looking forward to sharing a
connection on the dancefloor. :-)

J