818  "real men" and Unsubscribe

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:38:31 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: "real men" and Unsubscribe

Brian wrote:

> I for one found "Real men" very interesting, I thought many absurdities
> appeared under the thread "What is tango all about", at times I am tired

of

> reading the same topics about the dance itself. Do I think that I should
> unsubscribe, NO!

I found the "real men" thread a lot of fun too, but I feel it is time now to
point out one thing that only Carlos Lima seems to have mentioned, and he
was ignored, too:
I was the one who started that thread (in response to a tale about a lady
who complained that there were no "real men" at Metin Yazir's workshop).
I asked, tongue in cheek:"Pray tell, what is a "real man ?", and proceeded
to offer the usual stereotypes and added a few personally concocted
absurdities as possible examples. What happened then, to my growing
amazement, was that nobody over there in the States seemed to have realised
I was joking, and this deadly serious agitiated discussion followed about
what comprises a proper "real" man in tango and other walks of life. When it
got more and more serious, and complaints about this politically incorrect,
outdated topic started rolling in ("nowadays men are allowed to do all kinds
of things at a milonga, real men are out of fashion, even in tango, our
milonga in XY is very modern and liberal, etc.etc."), I threw in another
absurd posting, hoping to open people's eyes to the joke behind the whole
thread. I told them, that now, with the help of the list, I had reached the
enlightened understanding that, as far as milonga behaviour was concerned, I
was not qualified to be regarded as a "real lady" either, and that I now
suffered pangs of guilt, blabla... . No use, the serious discussion
continued. Then Carlos pointed out that it was meant to be a joke. No use,
more polemic postings in favor or against the "real man" critierion.
Now, if I am responsible for having made Rick and others want to unsubscribe
, because of posting an ironic question and joking about a topic that
cannot but be taken seriously and without humour, and regarded as a serious
insult to modern male dignity by almost everyone but me, apparently, please
imagine me bowing low in Japanese fashion in front of all of you who felt
offended and bored to death, and accept my deepest apologies.

Astrid in Tokyo

P.S.
In case anyone plans to ask: this posting is tongue in cheek, too.

Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 13:27:13 -0400
From: Michael B Ditkoff <tangomaniac@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: "real men" and Unsubscribe

Astrid:

I'm glad you're joking. I wouldn't want you to commit hiri kiri over it.

Michael

On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:38:31 +0900 astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
writes:
please > imagine me bowing low in Japanese fashion in front of all of
you who > felt> offended and bored to death, and accept my deepest
apologies.

>
> Astrid in Tokyo
>
> P.S.
> In case anyone plans to ask: this posting is tongue in cheek, too.>