2746 Showy dancing
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:09:44 -0700
From: Jay Jenkins <jayjenkins888@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Showy dancing
I know that certain places have very few instructors, one or two perhaps.
The dance style within each group (those taught by one instructor) has to be fairly uniform, granted that eventually each dancer will develop their own style.
Let's assume that at venue #1 everyone dances close embrace with simple foot work.
A couple moves in from another city, they like to dance Nuevo tango or Salon open embrace.
My question is (I would like to know your opinion supported by reason) is
Should they dance as they always did as long as they do not disturb the other dancers.
Will they be accused of being "showy".
Or should they sacrifice the style they like in order to dance like the other couples.
Should they attempt to create a group #3, and bring Nuevo Tango Instructors?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:49:26 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Showy dancing
Jay,
I personally think that people need to dance in the style they like, if they
prefer to dance open frame, as you point out, they should be respectful of
other dancers.
The following are based on what I have observed in several communities in
the USA:
Close embrace: Brings more "regular" people to dance because it only
requires to walk, makes a better social ambience, community dance level is
significantly better in the long term.
Open frame: Flashy, beautiful to watch but requires physical/acrobatic
abilities, usually only a few people become proficient at, community dance
level as a whole is poor in the long term.
It is also interesting to note that open frame usually goes with music that
has no danceable beat, thus there are many good dancers out there that can
not dance to the music when it is danceable.
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:10 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Showy dancing
I know that certain places have very few instructors, one or two perhaps.
The dance style within each group (those taught by one instructor) has to be
fairly uniform, granted that eventually each dancer will develop their own
style.
Let's assume that at venue #1 everyone dances close embrace with simple foot
work.
A couple moves in from another city, they like to dance Nuevo tango or Salon
open embrace.
My question is (I would like to know your opinion supported by reason) is
Should they dance as they always did as long as they do not disturb the
other dancers.
Will they be accused of being "showy".
Or should they sacrifice the style they like in order to dance like the
other couples.
Should they attempt to create a group #3, and bring Nuevo Tango Instructors?
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:54:23 -0400
From: John Gleeson <john.gleeson@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Showy dancing
Carlos Rojas wrote:
"It is also interesting to note that open frame usually goes with music that
has no danceable beat, thus there are many good dancers out there that can
not dance to the music when it is danceable."
This above posting has to be one of the most ass. . . .ine statements
ever made to this list !
John G.
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:01:23 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Showy dancing
John G. wrote:
"This above posting has to be one of the most ass. . . .ine statements ever
made to this list !"
John,
I am sorry that I offended you, it was not my intention, I am only listing
an observation that I made, will you please elaborate on your point of view.
Thank you
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 8:54 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Showy dancing
Carlos Rojas wrote:
"It is also interesting to note that open frame usually goes with music that
has no danceable beat, thus there are many good dancers out there that can
not dance to the music when it is danceable."
This above posting has to be one of the most ass. . . .ine statements
ever made to this list !
John G.
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:29:25 -0400
From: John Gleeson <john.gleeson@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Showy dancing
Carlos,
I wasn't offended - only amused/bemused at the silliness of the statement.
It shouldn't need explanation, but you asked for it:
1. The embrace has virtually nothing to do with danceable or undanceable
music.
2. I used to dance Open - then changed my style to Close Embrace (not
the "Milonguero" style). I had to adapt my lead and execution to this
embrace but I DID NOT have to change from dancing to "undanceable"
music, to dancing to "danceable " music.
3. If you think about it, the term "undanceable" means "cannot be danced
to" so how can anyone dance in Open Embrace to the music !!!
4. The only music that I don't dance to, whether in Open or in Close
Embrace, are alternative musical styles which I don't like, or orquestas
that I don't like.
5. The community here in Boston dances mostly Open Embrace. The music
played and danced to is 100% the same as the music played at venues
in BsAs and others where Close Embrace is more popular.
Have I said enough?
Cheers, John
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:35:36 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Showy dancing
John,
Thank you for your response. I would like to comment on it.
1. The embrace has virtually nothing to do with danceable or undanceable
music.
You are absolutely correct, however I have observed that open frame dancers
generally prefer to dance music with no danceable beat.
2. I used to dance Open - then changed my style to Close Embrace (not
the "Milonguero" style). I had to adapt my lead and execution to his
embrace but I DID NOT have to change from dancing to "undanceable"
music, to dancing to "danceable " music.
Great, same for me.
3. If you think about it, the term "undanceable" means "cannot be
danced to" so how can anyone dance in Open Embrace to the music !!!
What I meant by "undanceable" is music with no danceable beat, i.e.
Piazzolla, Gardel. I often hear people say that you can dance tango to any
music, and although that is true, the same is true for other dances (salsa,
swing, etc), they can be adapted to any music, but that is not the point of
the dance, usually the specific dance steps matches the music, so does in
tango, this is why I said that there are many good dancers out there who do
no dance to the music (at least not yet).
4. The only music that I don't dance to, whether in Open or in Close
Embrace, are alternative musical styles which I don't like, or
orquestas that I don't like.
Same here.
5. The community here in Boston dances mostly Open Embrace. The music
played and danced to is 100% the same as the music played at venues
in BsAs and others where Close Embrace is more popular.
Sounds good, but that is not the case in other communities.
Thank you for letting me clarify mi initial comment, please let me know if I
am still off the mark.
Thanks
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:50:42 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Showy dancing
--- Jay Jenkins <jayjenkins888@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> Let's assume that at venue #1 everyone dances close
> embrace with simple foot work.
> A couple moves in from another city, they like to
> dance Nuevo tango or Salon open embrace.
>
> My question is (I would like to know your opinion
> supported by reason) is
>
> Should they dance as they always did as long as they
> do not disturb the other dancers.
Of course, they should. I'm also assuming they are
also dancing for themselves, not for an audience.
Milongas are made up of all kinds of people.
> Will they be accused of being "showy".
Maybe, but if they dance well, they will simply be
seen as good dancers. I think that it is mostly the
not-so-good Nuevo or Open dancers that are accused of
being "showy".
> Or should they sacrifice the style they like in
> order to dance like the other couples.
No. Why be a conformist - to please other people?
Again, tango is personal and between the two people.
> Should they attempt to create a group #3, and bring
> Nuevo Tango Instructors?
Of course. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. They
should just be prepared for the naysayers. Creating
diversity and bringing in fresh ideas can only benefit
a community.
Trini de Pittsburgh
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:57:26 -0500
From: Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: re; showy dancing
Howdy Jay!
You've already said that you have no respect of my "reason", but you
present a good scenario! (by the way; where are you from....look forward
to meeting you!) My opinion (which means absolutely nothing, in your
opinion)! So, a nuevo couple moves into a milonguero community; They can
dance in whatever style they want, as long as they don't disturb me or
my partners. And as long as they learn to stay in the line of dance!
Of course they'll be accused of being "showy", because they won't
actually respect the rules; they'll kick, and jump, and hold up the line
of dance, and perform movements that should never be attempted on a
social dance floor
By no means should they ever sacrifice their style...they should just
take it to Italy, or Ontario.....anywhere away from real milongueros!
Preferably your living room; where you obviously have no idea as to how
to perform!!!!!!!!
Goodnight to all Denverites,
And thanks to all
Let's assume that at venue #1 everyone dances close embrace with simple
foot work.
A couple moves in from another city, they like to dance Nuevo tango or
Salon open embrace.
My question is (I would like to know your opinion supported by reason)
is
Should they dance as they always did as long as they do not disturb the
other dancers. Will they be accused of being "showy".
Or should they sacrifice the style they like in order to dance like the
other couples.
Should they attempt to create a group #3, and bring Nuevo Tango
Instructors?
