4201  Sorta varied...

Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:52:16 -0500
From: "Michael Figart II" <michaelfigart@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Sorta varied...
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>

Hello List,
I just got back from a visit to beautiful Mt Vernon, MO, where I did not
check email since last Wednesday. What a busy few days on the list!
Jeez, I had 190 emails to go through.
Unknown wrote<<<<"As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
propensity to learn decreases at the same rate">>>That's pretty strange,
all the teachers tell me that teaching is a really good way to learn a
lot more.
Derik wrote<<<My view on learning tango:"Stay away from self appointed
tango teachers." You are the customer. Why not just watch someone dance
at a milonga. If you want to dance like them,"you ask them" to teach
you what they know. Do not let people "tell you" that they are
teachers. You
make that decision yourself.>>>>Derik, you're the worst "self-appointed"
"teacher" I've ever run across, and if this is the way you learned
tango, I certainly want no part of it.
Derik wrote<<<<< Andres would probably tell you and all the other "close
embrace all the time people", to open up the embrace briefly to allow a
front ocho, and then close the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the
spice of life, right?>>>>>That would be fine, I guess, for some, but for
Derik it's more like "shove her away real quick, muscle her around off
her axis in a squirmy thing, while looking at her feet and talking, and
then pull her back in". Yeah; variety! And yes, Trini and Deby were
right, forward can be done close.
Derik wrote<<<< As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace opens
and closes like a bandondeon.">>>>Only heard it once, just now.
Trini wrote to Derik<<< it is rude for you to place your values on
others on something so personal and intimate... If I am misreading you,
then let me apologize..>>>>>> You're not misreading, Trini. It's rude.
Derik wrote<<<< The problem I have with the "close embrace all the time"
people is ignorance, and then them trying to spread that ignorance
around, by promoting their own inexperienced teachers. If the "close
embrace all the time people" would just dance the way they want to and
leave other people alone (not try to teach their ignorance), then I
would have no problem with them at all.>>>>> Ignorant, huh? Pretty funny
coming from you. What promoting? What inexperienced teachers? We all try
to leave your sorry ass alone, but you just won't shut up! That's OK, I
find your nonsense entertaining, especially as you exhibit your own
ignorance in every posting.
Derik wrote<<<< We should not have a tango teachers recruit and choose
us
as their victims, and tell us that we are inexperienced fools.>>>>Damn,
you're right there, Derik; so this has happened to you? But you've been
dancing well over ten years! Let me know who it was so I can correct
them; you're actually a very experienced fool.
Dani wrote<<<<< If not, I think it would be quite funny to watch him
dance. I wonder who taught him - or tried to teach him...Sorry, Derek,
but you come up with a load of - in fact, mostly - utter guff!>>>>>Yup,
utter guff is one way of putting it. And if it wasn't so pitiful,
watching him dance would be quite funny.
Andrea wrote<<<<<< the same goes in the tango community here [NYC].
nothing and no one is 'WRONG' and no one makes rules about tango.>>>>New
York City also remains the only place I've been kicked in the elbow on a
dance floor.
Michael D wrote<<<< At the last all night milonga in New York, a
careless woman executed a very high boleo, kicking my partner in the
ribs. The second time she kicked the table we were sitting.>>>>I wonder
if it was the same woman who kicked me in the elbow?
Michael D wrote to Derik<<<< I'm sure I could get a collection from the
list to buy you a ONE WAY plane ticket [to BsAs].>>>>>Better idea; how
'bout a ticket to Denver for Memorial Day so he can see some Argentine
Tango? No way will he venture onto the floor. I love BsAs too much to
send him there. Come to think of it, I love Denver too much, also. How
'bout Paris? Derik loves Paris.
Aron wrote to Michael D<<<< As for critizing Andres: Michael, you should
first check him out at a milonga and THEN say he can't do something
(yes: and tell him first that you want to see him dancing close embrace,
as it is couple's CHOICE to pick one or another form of
embrace).>>>>>Michael did not criticize Andres at all. He simply said he
was not interested in show tango.
Derik wrote<<<< The embrace,although a very cool, really has very little
to do with anything.>>>>>>>Huh????

To be continued... (sorry for long posting, couldn't hold back!)

See Sorta varied...2 (or "Got B*lls?)

Michael

Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:53:31 -0500
From: "Michael Figart II" <michaelfigart@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Sorta varied...2
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>

Derik wrote<<<<< PS - I have addressed the problem in my local
community, Houston and finally tango in this city has changed
dramatically just in the last year, Thank God. Houston is no longer
dominated by the "close embrace
all the time" people, as it was in the past. We now have a variety of
dancing styles, and teachers coming into town, which is the way it
should be. "Close embrace all the time people" are always welcome at all
of the milongas, but they just part of the crowd and they are no longer
in charge. They are not happy about it, and they are still trying to
get back in control, but that is the way things are here for now. We
are finally liberated at least for the moment...lol.>>>>>>
Keep laughing out loud Derik. We just shake our heads and pity you. So
YOU'VE addressed the PROBLEM, huh? Close embrace never dominated here,
we had a great little weekly milonga at a small coffee shop till it
closed down (Susana M loved it), and 3 times a year we brought
Glovertango to Continental for great milongas. We demonstrated tango all
over the place (open and closed), and I mailed out a weekly eletter. I
resigned from TangoHouston when I saw they were going to re-elect a
slimeball that we'd already had to kick off the board once, and has been
kicked off again since. I've seen three emails from TangoHouston in over
a year. I've seen no TangoHouston sponsored events. Glovertango wants
nothing to do with you. You brought Andres and Meredith in,
granted....what else? I certainly don't want to be in control, believe
me.
You are liberated Derik! You are free to look at the floor and talk
while muscling your follower around. The tango scene here sucks, and its
such a shame, because Houston is a great city and deserves MUCH better.
What self-respecting tanguero wants to associate with you and your kind
that clog up milongas trying to teach tango to somebody you just jerked
off the street or from the bar? Who wants to dance at a milonga where
they play all 1960's Pugliese and Piazzola? While listening to your
mouth rattle (or W's, or R's) while you're wrestling some poor woman
around against the line of dance. Where a "tanda" can be one vals
followed by two milongas? Where we look at the "ronda" and realize that
the dancing has nothing to do with the music? That just kills me!!! It
doesn't matter what music is playing, the dancing is the same. The only
requirement is that there be music playing, but the dancing doesn't have
to go with it, it doesn't even need to be on the beat! Where a local
"real" Argentine TEACHER stomps on my foot (just last month!) on a floor
as big as big as a football field with 30 dancers on it? Oh yeah,
another requirement is as many tall, young, leggy women with big boobs
to push around the floor. You are not near the only one, Derik, just the
only one stupid enough to shoot your mouth off publicly insulting me,
high quality teachers, milongueros in general, and many of my friends on
this list. Some of them I've never met, yet I still know them, as they
do me. Many of them I've met many times, danced with many times. We all
know who is generally respected in the US tango community.
You just don't get it, Derik. Argentine Tango is not just about fun, or
socializing, it's much, much more to me and Tine, Trini, Sean, Lois,
Ron, Michael K, Michael D, Dani, etc, etc (oops, I've appointed myself
spokesman again). It's about a respect and a reverence for the art that
you'll never know. We may not speak Argentine Spanish, or have danced
since we were six, or grown up with the music, but we feel it and
respect it more in our little right tango toe than you ever will in your
body, mind, soul, and heart put together. And we yearn for more; more
knowledge, more skill, more quality, more dancers that feel like we do,
with the passion that we have. Your conception of tango is so shallow it
doesn't penetrate your skin, much less your heart. It's all just for fun
for you, like a puppy who finds a bone and has a great time salivating
on it and dragging it around in the dirt. Ironically, though, it's more
fun for us than you'll ever experience.
Some have said we should just ignore you, and maybe they're right, but I
can only take so much. I've pretty much ignored you since you started
posting to this list, except for once in January when I got tired of
listening to you insulting Susana, and close embrace in general. So this
is for those of you who didn't see my posting in January, and to show my
support for those on this list whom I respect. I don't want anybody to
assume perhaps that maybe, just maybe, Derik speaks with any authority
whatsoever, or that anything he says should be taken seriously.
Tine wrote<<<< I am truly amazed that 1200 people on this list let this
idiot Derik call them ignorant, incompetent, dull, predictable,
inexperienced, same old, boring, BS. This is just the words from this
[one] email. You let him do this not just once, but over and over again.
For years! Incredible. Mind-boggling!... Don't any of you have any b*lls
on you? (well a few of you do) What's the matter with you?>>>>>>>And
she's right, except that it's only been about a year and a half since
Derik started posting.
The bottom line is that Derik doesn't know ANY Argentine Tango. He
doesn't dance close-embrace, or salon, or open, or nuevo. He wouldn't
know Argentine Tango if it bit him on the ass. He does SOMETHING out
there on the floor, but it's not Argentine Tango. For lack of a better
word, I coined the term "Derik tango", and it bears about as much
resemblance to Argentine Tango as that stuff on "Dancing with the
Stars". I've seen Derik knock women down and fall on top of them. A
great Japanese friend of mine (with that fantastic, enviable Japanese
dignity) will not even attend a milonga here anymore because he can't
stand Derik's lack of decorum, respect, and couth. He's afraid he might
lose control and punch his lights out (his eyes still flash and his
fists clench when he hears the name Derik)(yeah, Derik, you don't know
how close you came).
Derik, keep on posting if you like, continue your name-dropping and your
pathetic search for attention. Keep spewing forth your nonsense with
your condescending and patronizing attitude but I'd recommend you cut
and run while you're still behind. LOL.

My warm regards and respect to all the other listeros,

Michael Figart II
Houston TX

Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 16:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Sorta varied...2
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Yeehaa! Another Golden Balls Award. Thank you Michael.
Interesting but I heard the same things about D's so-called dancing from other people (I get those private emails after each cyberdebacle). Totally out of proportion with the amount of talking he does, and the tone of it. In particular I heard he uses his arms to manhandle the followers around. This, of course, is exceedingly hard to do in close embrace. The reason for his issues with a community of close embrace, could be because the followers have a tendency to just come in close (at least the unsuspecting ones who don't know it's Derik they are dealing with) and it's very hard to get them off your chest gracefully if the closeness cramps your arm lead.
Paris sounds perfect to me.
Tine


Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@yahoo.com> wrote:
Derik wrote<<<<< PS - I have addressed the problem in my local
community, Houston and finally tango in this city has changed
dramatically just in the last year, Thank God. Houston is no longer
dominated by the "close embrace
all the time" people, as it was in the past. We now have a variety of
dancing styles, and teachers coming into town, which is the way it
should be. "Close embrace all the time people" are always welcome at all
of the milongas, but they just part of the crowd and they are no longer
in charge. They are not happy about it, and they are still trying to
get back in control, but that is the way things are here for now. We
are finally liberated at least for the moment...lol.>>>>>>
Keep laughing out loud Derik. We just shake our heads and pity you. So
YOU'VE addressed the PROBLEM, huh? Close embrace never dominated here,
we had a great little weekly milonga at a small coffee shop till it
closed down (Susana M loved it), and 3 times a year we brought
Glovertango to Continental for great milongas. We demonstrated tango all
over the place (open and closed), and I mailed out a weekly eletter. I
resigned from TangoHouston when I saw they were going to re-elect a
slimeball that we'd already had to kick off the board once, and has been
kicked off again since. I've seen three emails from TangoHouston in over
a year. I've seen no TangoHouston sponsored events. Glovertango wants
nothing to do with you. You brought Andres and Meredith in,
granted....what else? I certainly don't want to be in control, believe
me.
You are liberated Derik! You are free to look at the floor and talk
while muscling your follower around. The tango scene here sucks, and its
such a shame, because Houston is a great city and deserves MUCH better.
What self-respecting tanguero wants to associate with you and your kind
that clog up milongas trying to teach tango to somebody you just jerked
off the street or from the bar? Who wants to dance at a milonga where
they play all 1960's Pugliese and Piazzola? While listening to your
mouth rattle (or W's, or R's) while you're wrestling some poor woman
around against the line of dance. Where a "tanda" can be one vals
followed by two milongas? Where we look at the "ronda" and realize that
the dancing has nothing to do with the music? That just kills me!!! It
doesn't matter what music is playing, the dancing is the same. The only
requirement is that there be music playing, but the dancing doesn't have
to go with it, it doesn't even need to be on the beat! Where a local
"real" Argentine TEACHER stomps on my foot (just last month!) on a floor
as big as big as a football field with 30 dancers on it? Oh yeah,
another requirement is as many tall, young, leggy women with big boobs
to push around the floor. You are not near the only one, Derik, just the
only one stupid enough to shoot your mouth off publicly insulting me,
high quality teachers, milongueros in general, and many of my friends on
this list. Some of them I've never met, yet I still know them, as they
do me. Many of them I've met many times, danced with many times. We all
know who is generally respected in the US tango community.
You just don't get it, Derik. Argentine Tango is not just about fun, or
socializing, it's much, much more to me and Tine, Trini, Sean, Lois,
Ron, Michael K, Michael D, Dani, etc, etc (oops, I've appointed myself
spokesman again). It's about a respect and a reverence for the art that
you'll never know. We may not speak Argentine Spanish, or have danced
since we were six, or grown up with the music, but we feel it and
respect it more in our little right tango toe than you ever will in your
body, mind, soul, and heart put together. And we yearn for more; more
knowledge, more skill, more quality, more dancers that feel like we do,
with the passion that we have. Your conception of tango is so shallow it
doesn't penetrate your skin, much less your heart. It's all just for fun
for you, like a puppy who finds a bone and has a great time salivating
on it and dragging it around in the dirt. Ironically, though, it's more
fun for us than you'll ever experience.
Some have said we should just ignore you, and maybe they're right, but I
can only take so much. I've pretty much ignored you since you started
posting to this list, except for once in January when I got tired of
listening to you insulting Susana, and close embrace in general. So this
is for those of you who didn't see my posting in January, and to show my
support for those on this list whom I respect. I don't want anybody to
assume perhaps that maybe, just maybe, Derik speaks with any authority
whatsoever, or that anything he says should be taken seriously.
Tine wrote<<<< I am truly amazed that 1200 people on this list let this
idiot Derik call them ignorant, incompetent, dull, predictable,
inexperienced, same old, boring, BS. This is just the words from this
[one] email. You let him do this not just once, but over and over again.
For years! Incredible. Mind-boggling!... Don't any of you have any b*lls
on you? (well a few of you do) What's the matter with you?>>>>>>>And
she's right, except that it's only been about a year and a half since
Derik started posting.
The bottom line is that Derik doesn't know ANY Argentine Tango. He
doesn't dance close-embrace, or salon, or open, or nuevo. He wouldn't
know Argentine Tango if it bit him on the ass. He does SOMETHING out
there on the floor, but it's not Argentine Tango. For lack of a better
word, I coined the term "Derik tango", and it bears about as much
resemblance to Argentine Tango as that stuff on "Dancing with the
Stars". I've seen Derik knock women down and fall on top of them. A
great Japanese friend of mine (with that fantastic, enviable Japanese
dignity) will not even attend a milonga here anymore because he can't
stand Derik's lack of decorum, respect, and couth. He's afraid he might
lose control and punch his lights out (his eyes still flash and his
fists clench when he hears the name Derik)(yeah, Derik, you don't know
how close you came).
Derik, keep on posting if you like, continue your name-dropping and your
pathetic search for attention. Keep spewing forth your nonsense with
your condescending and patronizing attitude but I'd recommend you cut
and run while you're still behind. LOL.

My warm regards and respect to all the other listeros,

Michael Figart II
Houston TX




************************
www.yaletangoclub.org

Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 00:17:14 -0700
From: Michael Knowles <binkster@binkster.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Sorta varied...
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Michael Figart II wrote:

> I've seen Derik knock women down and fall on top of them.

Melanie and Michael of Oakland say /que bollitos de laton/ and /bravo!/
...Eventually someone was going to have to tell the truth about this
boor. Thank you Michael Figart!
--
Michael Knowles
Melanie Archer
m@twobanjos.com

Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 12:32:31 -0400
From: "Neil Liveakos" <neil.liveakos@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Sorta varied...
To: michaelfigart@yahoo.com
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<737e9d3f0605030932k86bdb9dn406d815cc62774e9@mail.gmail.com>

Derik wrote<<<< The embrace,although a very cool, really has very little
to do with anything.>>>>>>> I seldom post the list. I don't know this Derick
from Adam's housecat but the embrace, the feeling, and the music are the
essence of the Argentine Tango. The embrace has everything to do with
everything. If you don't have a good connection, then you're not dancing the
Argentine Tango. You're not dancing with your partner. If you don't embrace
the embrace then you've missed the joy of what this dance is all about. Just
for the record I dance open from time to time when the music moves me that
way or if my partner prefers it. I can even move from close to open like a
friggin' bandoneon but that's not what its all about. If you don't get the
embrace then you just don't get it. If you aspire to high-flying boleos then
dance in NYC. If you want the Argentine Tango then go to the afternoon
milongas of Buneos Aires and you will find it. I don't know Derick and I've
never danced in Paris but I have a dollar bill set aside for his trip.

Neil / www.milongasblog.com


On 5/2/06, Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Hello List,
> I just got back from a visit to beautiful Mt Vernon, MO, where I did not
> check email since last Wednesday. What a busy few days on the list!
> Jeez, I had 190 emails to go through.
> Unknown wrote<<<<"As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn decreases at the same rate">>>That's pretty strange,
> all the teachers tell me that teaching is a really good way to learn a
> lot more.
> Derik wrote<<<My view on learning tango:"Stay away from self appointed
> tango teachers." You are the customer. Why not just watch someone dance
> at a milonga. If you want to dance like them,"you ask them" to teach
> you what they know. Do not let people "tell you" that they are
> teachers. You
> make that decision yourself.>>>>Derik, you're the worst "self-appointed"
> "teacher" I've ever run across, and if this is the way you learned
> tango, I certainly want no part of it.
> Derik wrote<<<<< Andres would probably tell you and all the other "close
> embrace all the time people", to open up the embrace briefly to allow a
> front ocho, and then close the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the
> spice of life, right?>>>>>That would be fine, I guess, for some, but for
> Derik it's more like "shove her away real quick, muscle her around off
> her axis in a squirmy thing, while looking at her feet and talking, and
> then pull her back in". Yeah; variety! And yes, Trini and Deby were
> right, forward can be done close.
> Derik wrote<<<< As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace opens
> and closes like a bandondeon.">>>>Only heard it once, just now.
> Trini wrote to Derik<<< it is rude for you to place your values on
> others on something so personal and intimate... If I am misreading you,
> then let me apologize..>>>>>> You're not misreading, Trini. It's rude.
> Derik wrote<<<< The problem I have with the "close embrace all the time"
> people is ignorance, and then them trying to spread that ignorance
> around, by promoting their own inexperienced teachers. If the "close
> embrace all the time people" would just dance the way they want to and
> leave other people alone (not try to teach their ignorance), then I
> would have no problem with them at all.>>>>> Ignorant, huh? Pretty funny
> coming from you. What promoting? What inexperienced teachers? We all try
> to leave your sorry ass alone, but you just won't shut up! That's OK, I
> find your nonsense entertaining, especially as you exhibit your own
> ignorance in every posting.
> Derik wrote<<<< We should not have a tango teachers recruit and choose
> us
> as their victims, and tell us that we are inexperienced fools.>>>>Damn,
> you're right there, Derik; so this has happened to you? But you've been
> dancing well over ten years! Let me know who it was so I can correct
> them; you're actually a very experienced fool.
> Dani wrote<<<<< If not, I think it would be quite funny to watch him
> dance. I wonder who taught him - or tried to teach him...Sorry, Derek,
> but you come up with a load of - in fact, mostly - utter guff!>>>>>Yup,
> utter guff is one way of putting it. And if it wasn't so pitiful,
> watching him dance would be quite funny.
> Andrea wrote<<<<<< the same goes in the tango community here [NYC].
> nothing and no one is 'WRONG' and no one makes rules about tango.>>>>New
> York City also remains the only place I've been kicked in the elbow on a
> dance floor.
> Michael D wrote<<<< At the last all night milonga in New York, a
> careless woman executed a very high boleo, kicking my partner in the
> ribs. The second time she kicked the table we were sitting.>>>>I wonder
> if it was the same woman who kicked me in the elbow?
> Michael D wrote to Derik<<<< I'm sure I could get a collection from the
> list to buy you a ONE WAY plane ticket [to BsAs].>>>>>Better idea; how
> 'bout a ticket to Denver for Memorial Day so he can see some Argentine
> Tango? No way will he venture onto the floor. I love BsAs too much to
> send him there. Come to think of it, I love Denver too much, also. How
> 'bout Paris? Derik loves Paris.
> Aron wrote to Michael D<<<< As for critizing Andres: Michael, you should
> first check him out at a milonga and THEN say he can't do something
> (yes: and tell him first that you want to see him dancing close embrace,
> as it is couple's CHOICE to pick one or another form of
> embrace).>>>>>Michael did not criticize Andres at all. He simply said he
> was not interested in show tango.
> Derik wrote<<<< The embrace,although a very cool, really has very little
> to do with anything.>>>>>>>Huh????
>
> To be continued... (sorry for long posting, couldn't hold back!)
>
> See Sorta varied...2 (or "Got B*lls?)
>
> Michael
>
>

--
Neil Liveakos
www.MilongasBlog.com