4170 "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:23:08 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
How about another suggestion - ask a person whose dancing you admire *where
they learned*. Especially if you are not a professional dancer who can pick
up dances easily. Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers on the
floor.
Lois Donnay
Minneapolis, MN
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu
> [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Derik Rawson
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:22 AM
> To: Tango Tango; tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango
> teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
>
>
> Dear All:
>
> --- Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn decreases at the same rate"
>
> My view on learning tango:
>
> "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
>
> You are the customer. Why not just watch someone
> dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them,
> "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not
> let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You
> make that decision yourself.
>
> Derik
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>
>
> --- Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
> >
> > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> > propensity to learn
> > decreases at the same rate"
> >
> >
> > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt
> > Sacrilege & Heresy In
> > Tango
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:35 +0100 (BST)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re:Public Service
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
Lois suggested:
> ask a person whose dancing you admire *where they learned*.
I used to do that... until I found the answer was always the same.
"On the dance floor".
> Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers on the
> floor.
I'm guessing you're a teacher...
Chris
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
To: tango-l@mit.edu
That's all I can stand. I can't stands no more.
Enough already with this distinction between "Teachers" and "wanna be teachers".
I say if someone is willing to share their knowledge with you, maybe you could learn what you can from them.
It seems to me that most everyone who calls themselves a "teacher" of tango has, one way or another, appointed themselves as a "Teacher".
Who exactly, pray tell, decides who is a teacher of tango?
Although I have had one (count 'em, one) woman walk away because "you aren't supposed to teach on the dance floor", and have had others let me know either verbally or non-verbally that they weren't open to input, the majority of women who have started to do tango more recently than I have are thankful that someone is willing to explain things to them. And, oddly enough, at the not tango dance venues I frequent, the number of women that are willing to accept input is much higher. There is a selection process going on there of course. Not coincidently, at those other places people aren?t constantly told to beware of people who "want to be teachers".
When people share information freely, both misinformation and information is exchanged. So be it. I routinely share the names of those I think are good at teaching with those who seem truly interested in learning, and I certainly hope that people will do "fact checking" regarding what I tell them.
It took me into my 30's to know with certainty that all knowledge doesn't come from those we agree to call "teacher" or "professor". I'm not going back.
And, oh by the way, just last Sunday two different women I dance with shared with me what was basically the same helpful tip. I welcomed this input, and plan to start using it. Were they "teaching"? Call it what you want. Just don't denigrate it.
Sometimes "the rules" are counter productive.
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very much.
If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some milonguero tango, oh, NO!
Tine
PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes for free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needing classes, who would?
Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear All:
--- Tango Tango wrote:
"As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
propensity to learn decreases at the same rate"
My view on learning tango:
"Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
You are the customer. Why not just watch someone
dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them,
"you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not
let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You
make that decision yourself.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- Tango Tango wrote:
> Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
>
> "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn
> decreases at the same rate"
>
>
> This message was brought to you by Operation Halt
> Sacrilege & Heresy In
> Tango
>
>
************************
www.yaletangoclub.org
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:56:35 -0400
From: "Neil Liveakos" <neil.liveakos@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<737e9d3f0604271556m1411c22fwc1704aa8236b7304@mail.gmail.com>
--- Tango Tango wrote:
> Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
>
> "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn
> decreases at the same rate"
OK. Who IS this Neil? What is his 1st Law?
Gracias,
Neil Liveakos
www.MilongasBlog.com
On 4/27/06, Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very
> much.
> If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some
> milonguero tango, oh, NO!
> Tine
>
> PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself
> teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes for
> free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needing
> classes, who would?
>
> Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear All:
>
> --- Tango Tango wrote:
>
> "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn decreases at the same rate"
>
> My view on learning tango:
>
> "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
>
> You are the customer. Why not just watch someone
> dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them,
> "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not
> let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You
> make that decision yourself.
>
> Derik
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>
>
> --- Tango Tango wrote:
>
> > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
> >
> > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> > propensity to learn
> > decreases at the same rate"
> >
> >
> > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt
> > Sacrilege & Heresy In
> > Tango
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************
> www.yaletangoclub.org
>
>
>
>
--
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I don't know who Neil is but his 1st law must be "Do Not Believe Everything You Read".
It could be he is the same Neil who writes all those fortune cookies in that factory in Queens.
Tine
Neil Liveakos <neil.liveakos@gmail.com> wrote:
--- Tango Tango wrote:
> Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
>
> "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn
> decreases at the same rate"
OK. Who IS this Neil? What is his 1st Law?
Gracias,
Neil Liveakos
www.MilongasBlog.com
On 4/27/06, Yale Tango Club wrote:
>
> I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from me! Thank you very
> much.
> If you disregard this warning, you might learn something. Maybe even some
> milonguero tango, oh, NO!
> Tine
>
> PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I appointed myself
> teacher, and went on to appoint 10 more just like me. We teach classes for
> free. If we didn't do it, every week or whenever there's beginners needing
> classes, who would?
>
> Derik Rawson wrote:
> Dear All:
>
> --- Tango Tango wrote:
>
> "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn decreases at the same rate"
>
> My view on learning tango:
>
> "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
>
> You are the customer. Why not just watch someone
> dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them,
> "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not
> let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You
> make that decision yourself.
>
> Derik
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>
>
> --- Tango Tango wrote:
>
> > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
> >
> > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> > propensity to learn
> > decreases at the same rate"
> >
> >
> > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt
> > Sacrilege & Heresy In
> > Tango
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************
> www.yaletangoclub.org
>
>
>
>
--
************************
www.yaletangoclub.org
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:19:14 +0200
From: Andy <andy.ungureanu@t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
steve pastor wrote:
> That's all I can stand. I can't stands no more.
> <>
> Who exactly, pray tell, decides who is a teacher of tango?
>
It's simple, the (broader) community decides who is accepted as a
teacher. The one who thinks he is a teacher, but doesn't have many
students, nor regular classes, the one who is teaching during milongas
is a "self appointed teacher"
> And, oh by the way, just last Sunday two different women I dance with shared with me what was basically the same helpful tip. I welcomed this input, and plan to start using it. Were they "teaching"? Call it what you want. Just don't denigrate it.
>
No, they didn't teach. They gave you a tip to make them more comfortable
dancing with you. Teaching on the dance floor is usually done by men who
are not able to make the woman perform what they want and, instead of
trying something else or let it be, begin to explain or show them steps,
also called "verbal leading". They do it usually with beginner
followers, other followers don't dance with them any longer. The
beginner followers are impressed that someone "so experienced" cares to
help them so much. Later they realize it was only bullshit.
> Sometimes "the rules" are counter productive.
>
Yes, sometimes, especially when the rule is not properly understood ;-)
Giving tips to someone you know (longer than 2 dances) is not that
teaching meant by the rule. Giving tips to everyone, if they want to
hear it or not, is insensitive and silly.
Cheers
Andy
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
To: Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net>, tango-l@mit.edu
Dear Lois:
--- Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net> wrote:
"Go to the teacher who has put the most good dancers
on the floor."
By your definition, I would be a good tango teacher,
because I have introduced a lot of people to Argentine
tango, and most of them are now great dancers (don't
ask me, ask others about that...lol)....BUT, I am not
a tango teacher. I just encourage people to have some
fun, and they do it on their own.
I think encouraging people to dance tango often, and
providing venues for them to dance their asses off is
much more important than telling people what to do.
The Argentines are really great dancers because they
start dancing tango when they are 6 years old, and
they learn it mostly from their close friends. They
have their own tango. Argentines do not look like a
teacher. That is bad. They look like themselves. They
are individuals, not programmed robots.
--- Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net> wrote:
" How about another suggestion - ask a person whose
dancing you admire *where they learned*. Especially if
you are not a professional dancer who can pick up
dances easily."
I have found that the really great Argentine tango
dancers, usually have little professional dance
training, and they have learned Argentine tango from
their friends. The people with professional dance
training are usually the problem on the dance floor in
Argentine tango. They are usually quite stiff and
rigid. They always try to "look good" and execute the
perfect step, but they do so usually without following
the music. They have a hard time with improvisation,
and prefer to do preset choreography. The women often
back-lead the men, if they get a chance. They usually
only dance well with their friends who have memorized
and practiced the same steps they know. They cannot
dance well with people outside of their own little
preselected group of friends. To me, this is not a
good thing.
I will always vote for the musicians, who can dance
with anyone. They can follow the music, and will do
so, even if the step is not perfect. To me, that is
more fun, and you know what? It works! The music is
what ties the dance partners together, not the perfect
step. What makes a great dancer is dancing. My
opinion.
PS- Practice makes perfect, not teaching...
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- Lois Donnay <donnay@donnay.net> wrote:
> How about another suggestion - ask a person whose
> dancing you admire *where
> they learned*. Especially if you are not a
> professional dancer who can pick
> up dances easily. Go to the teacher who has put the
> most good dancers on the
> floor.
>
> Lois Donnay
> Minneapolis, MN
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu
> > [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of
> Derik Rawson
> > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 11:22 AM
> > To: Tango Tango; tango-l@mit.edu
> > Subject: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed
> tango
> > teachers." Re:Public Service Announcement (2nd
> Law)
> >
> >
> > Dear All:
> >
> > --- Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> > propensity to learn decreases at the same rate"
> >
> > My view on learning tango:
> >
> > "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
> >
> > You are the customer. Why not just watch someone
> > dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like
> them,
> > "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do
> not
> > let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You
> > make that decision yourself.
> >
> > Derik
> > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
> >
> >
> > --- Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
> > >
> > > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases,
> his
> > > propensity to learn
> > > decreases at the same rate"
> > >
> > >
> > > This message was brought to you by Operation
> Halt
> > > Sacrilege & Heresy In
> > > Tango
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Re: Public Service Announcement (2nd Law)
To: YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Dear Tine:
Everyone learns something, from everyone, but if you
leave out the forward ocho, I will look elsewhere for
that...lol.
PS- I dance close embrace 60 to 80 percent of the
time, but I get bored with it, and so do most
Argentine Tango dancers around the world, except the
US Americans, which do it "all the time". There is
more to life than close embrace. The forward ocho is
part of that...lol. Have a great day.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am a self-appointed teacher. Please stay away from
> me! Thank you very much.
> If you disregard this warning, you might learn
> something. Maybe even some milonguero tango, oh, NO!
> Tine
>
> PS: In my community, when there was no teacher, I
> appointed myself teacher, and went on to appoint 10
> more just like me. We teach classes for free. If we
> didn't do it, every week or whenever there's
> beginners needing classes, who would?
>
> Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear All:
>
> --- Tango Tango wrote:
>
> "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> propensity to learn decreases at the same rate"
>
> My view on learning tango:
>
> "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
>
> You are the customer. Why not just watch someone
> dance at a milonga. If you want to dance like them,
> "you ask them" to teach you what they know. Do not
> let people "tell you" that they are teachers. You
> make that decision yourself.
>
> Derik
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>
>
> --- Tango Tango wrote:
>
> > Neil's 2nd Law of Tango states:
> >
> > "As a dancer's propensity to teach increases, his
> > propensity to learn
> > decreases at the same rate"
> >
> >
> > This message was brought to you by Operation Halt
> > Sacrilege & Heresy In
> > Tango
> >
> >
>
>
> protection around
>
>
>
> ************************
> www.yaletangoclub.org
>
>
>
>
>
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 21:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Hi Derik,
Next time you see Andres, ask him to teach you how to
lead a front ocho in close embrace...lol. Then maybe
the rest of us won't have to hear about your little
problem any more...lol.
Sean
P.S. Please don't anyone mention to Derik about all of
the professional dance training that Andres has
had...lol. He seems to be the only self appointed
tango teacher that Derik respects. I'd hate to see
that ruined...lol.
--- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
There is more to life than close embrace. The forward
ocho is part of that...lol.
--- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> also wrote:
The people with professional dance training are
usually the problem on the dance floor in Argentine
tango. They are usually quite stiff and rigid.
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:15:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, Tango-L
Dear Sean:
1. I chose Andres because I like the way he dances.
2. Andres would probably tell you and all the other
"close embrace all the time people", to open up the
embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then close
the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the spice of
life, right?
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hi Derik,
>
> Next time you see Andres, ask him to teach you how
> to
> lead a front ocho in close embrace...lol. Then maybe
> the rest of us won't have to hear about your little
> problem any more...lol.
>
> Sean
>
> P.S. Please don't anyone mention to Derik about all
> of
> the professional dance training that Andres has
> had...lol. He seems to be the only self appointed
> tango teacher that Derik respects. I'd hate to see
> that ruined...lol.
>
> --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There is more to life than close embrace. The
> forward
> ocho is part of that...lol.
>
> --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> also wrote:
>
> The people with professional dance training are
> usually the problem on the dance floor in Argentine
> tango. They are usually quite stiff and rigid.
>
> protection around
>
>
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:27:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Hi Derik,
Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace most
of the time, I can tell you that it is quite possible
to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts
indicate that your relative inexperience lets you
believe that such is not possible. I suggest that if
you worked more on the close-embrace you will discover
a lot more options that you are missing out on. And
you might understand better why so many people, not
just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace
"all-the-time".
Personally, dancing close allows me to better
communicate with my partner. This is the spice that
adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men who
can listen.
Happy tangos, whatever your style.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Sean:
>
> 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he dances.
> 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the other
> "close embrace all the time people", to open up the
> embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then
> close
> the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the spice
> of
> life, right?
>
> Derik
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, Tango-L
Dear Trini:
What are you two talking about....lol. I do front
ochos all the in variations of close and open embrace.
As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace
opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to
vary the embrace. You should know how to be connected
with your partner, no matter what.
Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like
keeping the bandondeon closed all the
time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience
and lack of understanding probably falls more on the
side of the people who do close embrace all the time,
and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching
the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a
break....lol.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hi Derik,
>
> Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace
> most
> of the time, I can tell you that it is quite
> possible
> to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts
> indicate that your relative inexperience lets you
> believe that such is not possible. I suggest that
> if
> you worked more on the close-embrace you will
> discover
> a lot more options that you are missing out on. And
> you might understand better why so many people, not
> just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace
> "all-the-time".
>
> Personally, dancing close allows me to better
> communicate with my partner. This is the spice that
> adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men
> who
> can listen.
>
> Happy tangos, whatever your style.
> Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>
> --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Sean:
> >
> > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he
> dances.
> > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the
> other
> > "close embrace all the time people", to open up
> the
> > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then
> > close
> > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the
> spice
> > of
> > life, right?
> >
> > Derik
> > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
> >
>
>
> PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
> Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's
> most popular social dance.
> https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
>
>
> protection around
>
>
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Dear Derik,
In your post, you seem to blame the close-embrace
style for your boredom rather than, well, yourself.
If you don't want to do close-embrace all the time,
fine. But why place a value judgement on those who
do?
If you do not understand why people choose to do
close-embrace all-the-time, then I can only guess that
1) you don't know enough about close-embrace to keep
it interesting, 2) you do not value the same things
close-embrace people do, or 3) both. There's nothing
wrong with that, but it is rude for you to place your
values on others on something so personal and
intimate. "Keeping the embrace closed all the time is
like keeping the bandondeon closed all the
time...ridiculous!" is a value judgement.
If I am misreading you, then let me apologize in
advance. I do wish, though, that you would express
yourself in a more thoughtful manner.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Trini:
>
> What are you two talking about....lol. I do front
> ochos all the in variations of close and open
> embrace.
> As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace
> opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to
> vary the embrace. You should know how to be
> connected
> with your partner, no matter what.
> Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like
> keeping the bandondeon closed all the
> time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience
> and lack of understanding probably falls more on the
> side of the people who do close embrace all the
> time,
> and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching
> the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a
> break....lol.
>
> Derik
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>
>
> --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Derik,
> >
> > Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace
> > most
> > of the time, I can tell you that it is quite
> > possible
> > to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts
> > indicate that your relative inexperience lets you
> > believe that such is not possible. I suggest that
> > if
> > you worked more on the close-embrace you will
> > discover
> > a lot more options that you are missing out on.
> And
> > you might understand better why so many people,
> not
> > just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace
> > "all-the-time".
> >
> > Personally, dancing close allows me to better
> > communicate with my partner. This is the spice
> that
> > adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men
> > who
> > can listen.
> >
> > Happy tangos, whatever your style.
> > Trini de Pittsburgh
> >
> >
> > --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Sean:
> > >
> > > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he
> > dances.
> > > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the
> > other
> > > "close embrace all the time people", to open up
> > the
> > > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then
> > > close
> > > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the
> > spice
> > > of
> > > life, right?
> > >
> > > Derik
> > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
> > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's
> > most popular social dance.
> > https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
> >
> >
> > protection around
> >
> >
>
>
>
> protection around
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 04:02:34 -0600
From: "David Hodgson" <DHodgson@Tango777.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Humm, just saw this post. Ok, I will jump in.
Derik, I am going to get down to business here (only for a moment). The way
your talking and what I hear, of your interpretation of Tango is.
1. You think and therefore assume too much.
2. Dance the patterns and steps, therefore talk, and therefore all below the
belt.
My question to you Derik. What is tango to you?
(Trini, when we have the opportunity to dance together I request you wear
the shoes that make you growl. I also ask you make this obvious as I am a
man, Thank you.)
David~
To the moderators, will only post positive feed back from here on out, I
just needed to ask the question, TKX10
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:40 PM
To: Trini y Sean (PATangoS); Tango-L
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
Dear Trini:
What are you two talking about....lol. I do front
ochos all the in variations of close and open embrace.
As you have heard it said many times, "The embrace
opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is to
vary the embrace. You should know how to be connected
with your partner, no matter what.
Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like
keeping the bandondeon closed all the
time...ridiculous! My view is that the inexperience
and lack of understanding probably falls more on the
side of the people who do close embrace all the time,
and their teachers who purposely eliminate teaching
the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a
break....lol.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hi Derik,
>
> Trini, here. As someone who dances close-embrace
> most
> of the time, I can tell you that it is quite
> possible
> to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts
> indicate that your relative inexperience lets you
> believe that such is not possible. I suggest that
> if
> you worked more on the close-embrace you will
> discover
> a lot more options that you are missing out on. And
> you might understand better why so many people, not
> just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace
> "all-the-time".
>
> Personally, dancing close allows me to better
> communicate with my partner. This is the spice that
> adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those men
> who
> can listen.
>
> Happy tangos, whatever your style.
> Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>
> --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Sean:
> >
> > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he
> dances.
> > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the
> other
> > "close embrace all the time people", to open up
> the
> > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and then
> > close
> > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the
> spice
> > of
> > life, right?
> >
> > Derik
> > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
> >
>
>
> PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
> Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's
> most popular social dance.
> https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
>
>
> protection around
>
>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:12:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Stay away from self appointed tango teachers."
To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, Tango-L
Dear Trini:
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
wrote:
"it is rude for you to place your values on others on
something so personal and intimate."
The problem I have with the "close embrace all the
time" people is ignorance, and then them trying to
spread that ignorance around, by promoting their own
inexperienced teachers. If the "close embrace all the
time people" would just dance the way they want to and
leave other people alone (not try to teach their
ignorance), then I would have no problem with them at
all.
I agree with you that personal taste is OK. Everyone
has their own tango. I have said this many times. We
dancers should choose our tango teachers ourselves. We
should not have a tango teachers recruit and choose us
as their victims, and tell us that we are
inexperienced fools.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Dear Derik,
>
> In your post, you seem to blame the close-embrace
> style for your boredom rather than, well, yourself.
> If you don't want to do close-embrace all the time,
> fine. But why place a value judgement on those who
> do?
>
> If you do not understand why people choose to do
> close-embrace all-the-time, then I can only guess
> that
> 1) you don't know enough about close-embrace to keep
> it interesting, 2) you do not value the same things
> close-embrace people do, or 3) both. There's
> nothing
> wrong with that, but it is rude for you to place
> your
> values on others on something so personal and
> intimate. "Keeping the embrace closed all the time
> is
> like keeping the bandondeon closed all the
> time...ridiculous!" is a value judgement.
>
> If I am misreading you, then let me apologize in
> advance. I do wish, though, that you would express
> yourself in a more thoughtful manner.
>
> Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>
>
> --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Trini:
> >
> > What are you two talking about....lol. I do front
> > ochos all the in variations of close and open
> > embrace.
> > As you have heard it said many times, "The
> embrace
> > opens and closes like a bandondeon." My point is
> to
> > vary the embrace. You should know how to be
> > connected
> > with your partner, no matter what.
> > Keeping the embrace closed all the time is like
> > keeping the bandondeon closed all the
> > time...ridiculous! My view is that the
> inexperience
> > and lack of understanding probably falls more on
> the
> > side of the people who do close embrace all the
> > time,
> > and their teachers who purposely eliminate
> teaching
> > the front ocho entirely....like Tine. Give me a
> > break....lol.
> >
> > Derik
> > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
> >
> >
> > --- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Derik,
> > >
> > > Trini, here. As someone who dances
> close-embrace
> > > most
> > > of the time, I can tell you that it is quite
> > > possible
> > > to do a front ocho in close-embrace. Your posts
> > > indicate that your relative inexperience lets
> you
> > > believe that such is not possible. I suggest
> that
> > > if
> > > you worked more on the close-embrace you will
> > > discover
> > > a lot more options that you are missing out on.
> > And
> > > you might understand better why so many people,
> > not
> > > just Americans, enjoy dancing close-embrace
> > > "all-the-time".
> > >
> > > Personally, dancing close allows me to better
> > > communicate with my partner. This is the spice
> > that
> > > adds a lot of variety to the dance...to those
> men
> > > who
> > > can listen.
> > >
> > > Happy tangos, whatever your style.
> > > Trini de Pittsburgh
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Sean:
> > > >
> > > > 1. I chose Andres because I like the way he
> > > dances.
> > > > 2. Andres would probably tell you and all the
> > > other
> > > > "close embrace all the time people", to open
> up
> > > the
> > > > embrace briefly to allow a front ocho, and
> then
> > > > close
> > > > the embrace again afterwords. Variety is the
> > > spice
> > > > of
> > > > life, right?
> > > >
> > > > Derik
> > > > d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
> > > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango
> Pittsburgh's
> > > most popular social dance.
> > > https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > protection around
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > protection around
> >
>
>
> PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
> Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's
> most popular social dance.
> https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
>
>
> protection around
>
>
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
