1657  Tango in Buenos Aires

Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:32:20 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Tango in Buenos Aires

Dear friends from tango list

I read several postings about Tango and Buenos Aires . My opinion has to be weighted with a rate of accuracy 1/36.000.000, which is my individual number as argentine against the total population. Besides , concerning opinions , if you have two argentines, you may get three opinions :):)

I could not speak on behalf other people. I feel confortable standing for myself, because , I can say that my word is accurate enough, and I do not need backup of bibliography or references from third parties to say the following.

1) Buenos Aires is a city of 200 km2 surface. It has clear limits. Avenue General Paz divides the city from the province .Also the Riachuelo at the South makes a natural border.

2) At a random day, within the city , you may find ..... 20 milongas open. May be on weekends the number increases.

3) To be born in Buenos Aires, does not mean an instant status of Tango expert. There is not a Tango fairy or a goblin at the nursery rooms giving gifts of tango dancing, or singing, or playing a musical instrument.

4) Buenos Aires has several ethnic communities, with their own music . Bolivians, Paraguayans, Uruguayans ,Peruvians.Also a new affluence of inmigrants from the SE Asia (but this is ... the last 20 years , no more) . Chinese from Taiwan and PR China , Korean people. They have their neighbourhoods . Korean people at Almagro neighbourhood have their little Korea, with signs, food,music and even a local community newspaper. There is an exception to this inmigrant tradition, japanese people. They came at early XX century ,and settle as flowers breeers and gardeners .But they are at Escobar , a city 35 km NE Buenos Aires. Good people, mainly from Okinawa island. Not too much, around 40.000 as per the last information. They came also to Buenos Aires, with laundry and clothes cleaning shops, but this was many years away. Now they are "we" , you find japanese descendants, already settled .They keep traditions, but also have an integration in business and way of living , you can not tell a
difference from a native.

5) Within Buenos Aires, Tango has to "compete" with rock and pop music, ballads, latin music such as a salsa ,etc.etc..

6) Folk music. We can have an unending argument about what is folk music . Is Tango folk music ?? There is a current of thought that says that being tango the music that identifies Buenos Aires, it could be considered folk music. Another current of thought says that folk music needs some basic background, such as being handed over from previous generations , being widely known allover the country , and played by a significant number of inhabitants. This restricted line of thought do not consider native/first nations music as folklore, they put a brand as etnich music ( the music of mapuches, quechuas, tehuelches,yamanas, and many other native communities).

I understand that from the point of view of a visitor to Buenos Aires, to find open as 20 dancing places the same day, is fantastic.

Now , to say that being born in Argentina/Buenos Aires, one can claim a "degree in tango" , is far away from the truth.

I take my case . As Charles Roques comment in his posting, I was one of those argentines that begun taking lessons five years ago , at late 1998. I am enthusiastic , I like Tango , but .... I still have holes in my knowledge, the size of a galactic black hole :):)

What can I do ?? This was the way I approach to Tango . It is very difficult to be humble and say " I met people from other countries that show me places that I didn t know, like the Museo del Tango " . Or I met teachers , places such Circulo Leales y Pampeanos (thank you Rick & Alejandra) .

Maybe this posting is a way to say that nothing has to be took for granted from an argentine, included myself.

Any idea possible to be believed is an image of truth, as William Blake said.


May we can exchange meetings and opinions to enlarge the Tango world wide .

(alarum within) Long live to Tango !!!

Warm regards
Alberto Gesualdi
Buenos Aires




Usuario: yahoo; contraseqa: yahoo
Desde Buenos Aires: 4004-1010
Mas ciudades: clic aqum.

Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:21:14 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Kiosco del Tango in Buenos Aires

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:16:02 -0300
From: "Meredith Klein" <meredithleeklein@gmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Different styles of tango in Buenos Aires (was: Now
that I'm here in BA)
<34cd2b720611131516n6155e6f0w90f41528b460e9ec@mail.gmail.com>

Caroline is absolutely right that, in the milongas she describes (Club
Gricel, Nino Bien, Salon Canning, Confiteria Ideal) and in many
others, it's not appropriate to dance in open embrace or to throw
ganchos or boleos. In these milongas, people dance in close embrace,
use fairly simple steps, and prioritize the flow of the entire dance
floor. If people didn't respect these rules, it would be impossible
for hundreds of people to dance on the same floor, as regularly
happens at these milongas.

However, there is another set of milongas and practicas in Buenos
Aires where different rules apply. At Villa Malcolm, Practica X, Soho
Tango, La Viruta, La Marshall, and many more, the dancers are younger
(mostly between 18 and 40) and get bored if they have to dance in
close embrace all night, doing simple steps. They are always pushing
themselves and both competing and collaborating with each other to
find new possibilities in tango. This includes creating new kinds of
movements, finding new ways to put familiar movements together, and
exploring new ways to interpret traditional tango music (usually at
least 80% of the music played in these milongas is golden age, just
like at the traditional milongas).

Does the inclusion of ganchos, boleos, volcadas, colgadas, soltadas,
llevadas, apoyaditas, and steps that don't have names yet mean that
the dancers automatically lose their connection to the music and to
each other? By no means. Sure, some of the dancers at Malcolm have
no musicality, but some of the Argentines at Canning can't step on the
beat either. Many of the dancers at the practicas and altenative
milongas possess the same commitment to musicality and to connecting
with their partners that Caroline describes.

I want to make this point because I often hear dancers from the US
claim that the only true tango is the one that they see at Nino Bien
(close embrace, simple steps, using movements appropriate for a small
space) and it's simply not true. As the number of practicas explodes
(at least 11 now, up from one or two in 2004) and the number of
younger dancers continues to increase dramatically, the diversity in
the tango scene here will only continue to grow.

What is very true is that Argentines and foreigners who know the
milonga scene in Buenos Aires are very sensitive to and respectful of
the rules that apply in each venue. On Monday nights, the practica at
Villa Malcolm ends earlier than on other nights, so afterwards dozens
of dancers head over to Salon Canning several blocks away. When they
arrive, you wouldn't know that they were the same dancers. The women
who were wearing dance sneakers at Malcolm are now in Comme Il Fauts,
and perhaps they even put on makeup and changed their clothes to
better fit into the milonga environment. People who were practicing
jumps, 360-degree underarm turns and colgadas at Malcolm are now
sedately and happily executing their ocho cortados. Perhaps at 5:30
am, they'll start tearing up the floor again, but by then pretty much
everyone has gone home and no one cares.

Another point has to do with floorcraft. In the practicas, as in the
milongas, the same rules about navigation apply (staying in your lane,
not passing the couple in front of you, continuing to move around the
floor so that the people behind you don't get stuck with nowhere to
go, and the most important one, not leading any movement that cannot
be safely executed in the space available). Sure, it's possible to
get stepped on or kicked at a practica, but in my experience, it
doesn't happen more often than at a milonga. I've seen every
conceivable kind of tango movement led and followed successfully in
the practicas without a floorcraft incident. The difference is that
there tends to be more space per couple available on the practica
dance floor, making more things possible. Nevertheless, on
exceptionally crowded nights at the practicas, the dancers end up
dancing more and more like they dance at Canning, for lack of any safe
alternative.

If you think of a tango teacher you've heard of or studied with who's
under 40, and you want to watch them dance, you're more likely to find
them at one of the practicas than at the milongas. The level of
dancing in the practicas is often extremely high because half the
people in the room are professional dancers. If you're into that kind
of thing, it's exhilirating to be in the same room with people like
Chicho Frumboli, Lucia Mazer, Eugenia Parrilla, and many more, and
know that you're watching the evolution of tango. Even if you don't
like where it's going, you have to admit that every art form and
community must continue to grow and develop. If not, it fades and
dies.

For this reason, I believe that, in general, the dancers in their 60s,
70s, and 80s do not disapprove of what the younger dancers are doing.
The great majority of the older dancers have absolutely no interest in
learning to do a colgada, and probably think it's a stupid thing to
spend your time doing. They feel equally strongly about the stupidity
of making, listening to and dancing to electronic tango. But these
people watched tango nearly die out do the prohibitions around
milongas and classes during the military regime. Not only that but,
as hard as it is for us to believe, tango has for a long time been
totally uncool in Buenos Aires. If you ask a teenager or young adult
here what they think about tango, they are most likely to answer that
it's boring, it's what old people do, and they would never want to do
it. In this context, it's pretty miraculous that the youth tango
scene here is as vibrant as it is. And for this reason, I believe
that, even if the older dancers hate lots of things about the younger
dancers (their clothes, music, steps, etc.), they're still glad that
the younger generation is out dancing.

A guide to the practica and alternative milonga scene here is
available on my husband's website:
https://www.andresamarilla.com/theguidepracticas.htm

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:38 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Different styles of tango in Buenos Aires (was:
Now that I'm here in
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com

Meredith Klein wrote:

> As the number of practicas explodes (at least 11 now, up from one or
> two in 2004)

Wow. At that rate Buenos Aires will soon catch up with Berlin ;)

(... where there are currently about 25 practicas a week.)

Chris


-------- Original Message --------

*Subject:* [Tango-L] Different styles of tango in Buenos Aires (was: Now that I'm here in BA)
*From:* "Meredith Klein" <meredithleeklein@gmail.com>
*Date:* Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:16:02 -0300

Caroline is absolutely right that, in the milongas she describes (Club
Gricel, Nino Bien, Salon Canning, Confiteria Ideal) and in many
others, it's not appropriate to dance in open embrace or to throw
ganchos or boleos. In these milongas, people dance in close embrace,
use fairly simple steps, and prioritize the flow of the entire dance
floor. If people didn't respect these rules, it would be impossible
for hundreds of people to dance on the same floor, as regularly
happens at these milongas.

However, there is another set of milongas and practicas in Buenos
Aires where different rules apply. At Villa Malcolm, Practica X, Soho
Tango, La Viruta, La Marshall, and many more, the dancers are younger
(mostly between 18 and 40) and get bored if they have to dance in
close embrace all night, doing simple steps. They are always pushing
themselves and both competing and collaborating with each other to
find new possibilities in tango. This includes creating new kinds of
movements, finding new ways to put familiar movements together, and
exploring new ways to interpret traditional tango music (usually at
least 80% of the music played in these milongas is golden age, just
like at the traditional milongas).

Does the inclusion of ganchos, boleos, volcadas, colgadas, soltadas,
llevadas, apoyaditas, and steps that don't have names yet mean that
the dancers automatically lose their connection to the music and to
each other? By no means. Sure, some of the dancers at Malcolm have
no musicality, but some of the Argentines at Canning can't step on the
beat either. Many of the dancers at the practicas and altenative
milongas possess the same commitment to musicality and to connecting
with their partners that Caroline describes.

I want to make this point because I often hear dancers from the US
claim that the only true tango is the one that they see at Nino Bien
(close embrace, simple steps, using movements appropriate for a small
space) and it's simply not true. As the number of practicas explodes
(at least 11 now, up from one or two in 2004) and the number of
younger dancers continues to increase dramatically, the diversity in
the tango scene here will only continue to grow.

What is very true is that Argentines and foreigners who know the
milonga scene in Buenos Aires are very sensitive to and respectful of
the rules that apply in each venue. On Monday nights, the practica at
Villa Malcolm ends earlier than on other nights, so afterwards dozens
of dancers head over to Salon Canning several blocks away. When they
arrive, you wouldn't know that they were the same dancers. The women
who were wearing dance sneakers at Malcolm are now in Comme Il Fauts,
and perhaps they even put on makeup and changed their clothes to
better fit into the milonga environment. People who were practicing
jumps, 360-degree underarm turns and colgadas at Malcolm are now
sedately and happily executing their ocho cortados. Perhaps at 5:30
am, they'll start tearing up the floor again, but by then pretty much
everyone has gone home and no one cares.

Another point has to do with floorcraft. In the practicas, as in the
milongas, the same rules about navigation apply (staying in your lane,
not passing the couple in front of you, continuing to move around the
floor so that the people behind you don't get stuck with nowhere to
go, and the most important one, not leading any movement that cannot
be safely executed in the space available). Sure, it's possible to
get stepped on or kicked at a practica, but in my experience, it
doesn't happen more often than at a milonga. I've seen every
conceivable kind of tango movement led and followed successfully in
the practicas without a floorcraft incident. The difference is that
there tends to be more space per couple available on the practica
dance floor, making more things possible. Nevertheless, on
exceptionally crowded nights at the practicas, the dancers end up
dancing more and more like they dance at Canning, for lack of any safe
alternative.

If you think of a tango teacher you've heard of or studied with who's
under 40, and you want to watch them dance, you're more likely to find
them at one of the practicas than at the milongas. The level of
dancing in the practicas is often extremely high because half the
people in the room are professional dancers. If you're into that kind
of thing, it's exhilirating to be in the same room with people like
Chicho Frumboli, Lucia Mazer, Eugenia Parrilla, and many more, and
know that you're watching the evolution of tango. Even if you don't
like where it's going, you have to admit that every art form and
community must continue to grow and develop. If not, it fades and
dies.

For this reason, I believe that, in general, the dancers in their 60s,
70s, and 80s do not disapprove of what the younger dancers are doing.
The great majority of the older dancers have absolutely no interest in
learning to do a colgada, and probably think it's a stupid thing to
spend your time doing. They feel equally strongly about the stupidity
of making, listening to and dancing to electronic tango. But these
people watched tango nearly die out do the prohibitions around
milongas and classes during the military regime. Not only that but,
as hard as it is for us to believe, tango has for a long time been
totally uncool in Buenos Aires. If you ask a teenager or young adult
here what they think about tango, they are most likely to answer that
it's boring, it's what old people do, and they would never want to do
it. In this context, it's pretty miraculous that the youth tango
scene here is as vibrant as it is. And for this reason, I believe
that, even if the older dancers hate lots of things about the younger
dancers (their clothes, music, steps, etc.), they're still glad that
the younger generation is out dancing.

A guide to the practica and alternative milonga scene here is
available on my husband's website:
https://www.andresamarilla.com/theguidepracticas.htm

Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:48:38 -0300
From: "Meredith Klein" <meredithleeklein@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Different styles of tango in Buenos Aires (was:
Now that I'm here in
To: tl2@chrisjj.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<34cd2b720611131548x3f715635w9fe3f2c932860a32@mail.gmail.com>

> Chris, UK <tl2@chrisjj.com> wrote:
> Wow. At that rate Buenos Aires will soon catch up with Berlin ;)
>
> (... where there are currently about 25 practicas a week.)

Excuse me, I misspoke. There are actually many more practicas every
week in Buenos Aires. I was only referring to the ones specifically
aimed at the younger generation. Other practicas take place in more
traditional venues and are attended by people who want to dance more
traditionally or are just learning to dance.


On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:38 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),

> Meredith Klein wrote:
>
> > As the number of practicas explodes (at least 11 now, up from one or
> > two in 2004)
>
> Wow. At that rate Buenos Aires will soon catch up with Berlin ;)
>
> (... where there are currently about 25 practicas a week.)
>
> Chris
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
> *Subject:* [Tango-L] Different styles of tango in Buenos Aires (was: Now that I'm here in BA)
> *From:* "Meredith Klein" <meredithleeklein@gmail.com>
> *Date:* Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:16:02 -0300
>
> Caroline is absolutely right that, in the milongas she describes (Club
> Gricel, Nino Bien, Salon Canning, Confiteria Ideal) and in many
> others, it's not appropriate to dance in open embrace or to throw
> ganchos or boleos. In these milongas, people dance in close embrace,
> use fairly simple steps, and prioritize the flow of the entire dance
> floor. If people didn't respect these rules, it would be impossible
> for hundreds of people to dance on the same floor, as regularly
> happens at these milongas.
>
> However, there is another set of milongas and practicas in Buenos
> Aires where different rules apply. At Villa Malcolm, Practica X, Soho
> Tango, La Viruta, La Marshall, and many more, the dancers are younger
> (mostly between 18 and 40) and get bored if they have to dance in
> close embrace all night, doing simple steps. They are always pushing
> themselves and both competing and collaborating with each other to
> find new possibilities in tango. This includes creating new kinds of
> movements, finding new ways to put familiar movements together, and
> exploring new ways to interpret traditional tango music (usually at
> least 80% of the music played in these milongas is golden age, just
> like at the traditional milongas).
>
> Does the inclusion of ganchos, boleos, volcadas, colgadas, soltadas,
> llevadas, apoyaditas, and steps that don't have names yet mean that
> the dancers automatically lose their connection to the music and to
> each other? By no means. Sure, some of the dancers at Malcolm have
> no musicality, but some of the Argentines at Canning can't step on the
> beat either. Many of the dancers at the practicas and altenative
> milongas possess the same commitment to musicality and to connecting
> with their partners that Caroline describes.
>
> I want to make this point because I often hear dancers from the US
> claim that the only true tango is the one that they see at Nino Bien
> (close embrace, simple steps, using movements appropriate for a small
> space) and it's simply not true. As the number of practicas explodes
> (at least 11 now, up from one or two in 2004) and the number of
> younger dancers continues to increase dramatically, the diversity in
> the tango scene here will only continue to grow.
>
> What is very true is that Argentines and foreigners who know the
> milonga scene in Buenos Aires are very sensitive to and respectful of
> the rules that apply in each venue. On Monday nights, the practica at
> Villa Malcolm ends earlier than on other nights, so afterwards dozens
> of dancers head over to Salon Canning several blocks away. When they
> arrive, you wouldn't know that they were the same dancers. The women
> who were wearing dance sneakers at Malcolm are now in Comme Il Fauts,
> and perhaps they even put on makeup and changed their clothes to
> better fit into the milonga environment. People who were practicing
> jumps, 360-degree underarm turns and colgadas at Malcolm are now
> sedately and happily executing their ocho cortados. Perhaps at 5:30
> am, they'll start tearing up the floor again, but by then pretty much
> everyone has gone home and no one cares.
>
> Another point has to do with floorcraft. In the practicas, as in the
> milongas, the same rules about navigation apply (staying in your lane,
> not passing the couple in front of you, continuing to move around the
> floor so that the people behind you don't get stuck with nowhere to
> go, and the most important one, not leading any movement that cannot
> be safely executed in the space available). Sure, it's possible to
> get stepped on or kicked at a practica, but in my experience, it
> doesn't happen more often than at a milonga. I've seen every
> conceivable kind of tango movement led and followed successfully in
> the practicas without a floorcraft incident. The difference is that
> there tends to be more space per couple available on the practica
> dance floor, making more things possible. Nevertheless, on
> exceptionally crowded nights at the practicas, the dancers end up
> dancing more and more like they dance at Canning, for lack of any safe
> alternative.
>
> If you think of a tango teacher you've heard of or studied with who's
> under 40, and you want to watch them dance, you're more likely to find
> them at one of the practicas than at the milongas. The level of
> dancing in the practicas is often extremely high because half the
> people in the room are professional dancers. If you're into that kind
> of thing, it's exhilirating to be in the same room with people like
> Chicho Frumboli, Lucia Mazer, Eugenia Parrilla, and many more, and
> know that you're watching the evolution of tango. Even if you don't
> like where it's going, you have to admit that every art form and
> community must continue to grow and develop. If not, it fades and
> dies.
>
> For this reason, I believe that, in general, the dancers in their 60s,
> 70s, and 80s do not disapprove of what the younger dancers are doing.
> The great majority of the older dancers have absolutely no interest in
> learning to do a colgada, and probably think it's a stupid thing to
> spend your time doing. They feel equally strongly about the stupidity
> of making, listening to and dancing to electronic tango. But these
> people watched tango nearly die out do the prohibitions around
> milongas and classes during the military regime. Not only that but,
> as hard as it is for us to believe, tango has for a long time been
> totally uncool in Buenos Aires. If you ask a teenager or young adult
> here what they think about tango, they are most likely to answer that
> it's boring, it's what old people do, and they would never want to do
> it. In this context, it's pretty miraculous that the youth tango
> scene here is as vibrant as it is. And for this reason, I believe
> that, even if the older dancers hate lots of things about the younger
> dancers (their clothes, music, steps, etc.), they're still glad that
> the younger generation is out dancing.
>
> A guide to the practica and alternative milonga scene here is
> available on my husband's website:
> https://www.andresamarilla.com/theguidepracticas.htm
>
>

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:00:40 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] History of tango in Buenos Aires
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>

El Tangauta has an interesting article on a turn-of-the century place Lo de
Laura
https://www.eltangauta.com/nota.asp?id†3