1223 Tango in Europe
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:01:41 -0700
From: Pablo Tapia <pablo.tapia@ASU.EDU>
Subject: Tango in Europe
Without getting into rivalry and disagreements, I would like to know what
are the 'hot spots' to dance in Europe. What cities, what milongas, what
nights.
Thanks,
Pablo
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:05:06 -0400
From: manuel <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
I don't have experience with all of Europe, but the Netherlands has lots of
tango. People from all over Europe seem to go there. Amsterdam has lots of
milongas as do other nearby cities (including some in Belgium). If you want
to travel a few more kilometers, go to Nijmegen and find El Corte. Eric is
the host, they are all nice people and they have *LOTS* of tango events,
milongas, etc.
Manuel
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 1:01 PM
Subject: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
> Without getting into rivalry and disagreements, I would like to know what
> are the 'hot spots' to dance in Europe. What cities, what milongas, what
> nights.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pablo
>
>
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 00:37:42 +0100
From: Bruce Stephens <bruce@CENDERIS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
manuel <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> I don't have experience with all of Europe, but the Netherlands has
> lots of tango. People from all over Europe seem to go
> there. Amsterdam has lots of milongas as do other nearby cities
> (including some in Belgium). If you want to travel a few more
> kilometers, go to Nijmegen and find El Corte. Eric is the host, they
> are all nice people and they have *LOTS* of tango events, milongas,
> etc.
Berlin is also said to have lots of tango.
The Netherlands is a good destination choice since even though a
particular city might not have *that* much tango, it's a relatively
small country with good public transport, so going to another city
just for a milonga is quite practical.
I think those are the two places that have a disproportionate amount
of tango. For other places, it's basically according to the
population (although some places seem oddly barren---the North West of
England, for example, which seems to have only one milonga, even
though Liverpool and Manchester and the surrounding places are pretty
populous; equal to Edinburgh, I'd have thought, and Edinburgh has two
or three milongas, IIRC).
[...]
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:30:56 +0300
From: "Aydogan (El Encuentro)" <aydogan@TANGOENCUENTRO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
You are more than welcome to dance 7 nights a week in Istanbul. We
accomodated lots of tangurea/os from the world in these milongas, who
were surprised by the level they met.
In Istanbul somedays you can dance in more than a single venue. There
are milongas where you can find 80-100 people dancing. Feel free to
visit my web site, for details on milongas, and the news as well.
https://www.tangointurkey.com/mainpages/TT_Milongas.htm
Let yourself be the next one...
Regards,
Aydogan
www.tangoencuentro.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:38 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
manuel <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> I don't have experience with all of Europe, but the Netherlands has
> lots of tango. People from all over Europe seem to go there. Amsterdam
> has lots of milongas as do other nearby cities (including some in
> Belgium). If you want to travel a few more kilometers, go to Nijmegen
> and find El Corte. Eric is the host, they are all nice people and they
> have *LOTS* of tango events, milongas, etc.
Berlin is also said to have lots of tango.
The Netherlands is a good destination choice since even though a
particular city might not have *that* much tango, it's a relatively
small country with good public transport, so going to another city just
for a milonga is quite practical.
I think those are the two places that have a disproportionate amount of
tango. For other places, it's basically according to the population
(although some places seem oddly barren---the North West of England, for
example, which seems to have only one milonga, even though Liverpool and
Manchester and the surrounding places are pretty populous; equal to
Edinburgh, I'd have thought, and Edinburgh has two or three milongas,
IIRC).
[...]
"subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 21:28:14 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango in Europe
Marco shared his opinion on tango scene in different countries in Europe:
>Join the club Daniel, everyone prefers Argentina... But after Argentina?
>What? England? France? Turkey? Italy? I say Netherlands...
I am thinking about going for a short vacation in Europe. So this info is
actually quite interesting. I also like your definition of good tango.
Someone told me that Berlin is the place to visit for tango in Europe.
Better than Netherlands. Is it true? Finland is also mentioned quite often.
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com 24 days till Tango in the Park milonga in Manitou
Springs
>From: Tango Dancer <tango_1908@YAHOO.COM>
>Reply-To: Tango Dancer <tango_1908@YAHOO.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango and Politics 2004
>Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:54:47 -0700
>
> >Dutch tango is Dutch tango (with some exceptions, of course). I
>
> >prefer Argentina.
>
>
>
>Join the club Daniel, everyone prefers Argentina... But after Argentina?
>What? England? France? Turkey? Italy? I say Netherlands...
>
>
>
> > iii. You say "and they are - by far- the best dancers -after the
>
> > Argentinians". Nonsensical statement. How can you attribute great or
>
> > even good dancing to any one nationality...???!
>
>
>
>You cannot.
>
>It is just a matter of kilometers/miles
>
>Milongas in Netherlands are much better than any other place in Europe
>
>And people there dance a lot...
>
>
>
>And further more, here are my personal statistics:
>
>(A) 9 out of 10 of Dutch followers, just by embracing me, they make me
>feel
>
> like a king
>
>(B) 5 out of 10 non Dutch European ladies make me insecure with their
>
> embrace (you feel that something is missing there)
>
>
>
>and:
>
>in (B) I have to be really careful and selective with my partners
>
>in (A) I am not selective at all (I don't need to be selective in
>Netherlands)
>
>
>
>-I am not anti-American at all. I just disagree with US foreign policy.
>
> Democrats & Republicans are the same. They believe in the same God: U$D
>
>-no personal attack to u or anyone else
>
>-I hate writing or reading long emails
>
>-All the above come from my personal experience (ie. 50% chances to be
>
> completely wrong)
>
>
>
>ciao,
>
>marco
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:39:17 +0200
From: Christian Lüthen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
On 28 Jul 2004 at 21:28, Oleh Kovalchuke wrote:
> Someone told me that Berlin is the place to visit for tango in Europe.
Berlin can be fantastic ... and can be very bad. Tough scene, not too
open to externals (by my experience). [btw: I am german, I do speak
the language ;-) ]
> Better than Netherlands. Is it true?
NO! :-) Dutch Tango is the best in Europe (people go out to dance ...
to dance ... to dance ...) ... if not outside Argentina. ;-)) "Tango-
Mekka" outside Buenos Aires is to be found at Nijmegen, The
Netherlands ... at a place called "El Corte". But: Summerbreak for
the moment, otherwise (sept. through april) the weekend of the first
saturday of the month. Only option in summer: the summer weekend (3rd
weekend in august) ... but not as good as the "chained salons" at the
beginning of a month.
BUT: Be aware ... you'll have to be prepared to nearly two days of
contineous dancing ... all nighters included. :-))
> Finland is also mentioned quite often.
Finland is 'finnish Tango' ... argentine tango scene is small ... and
not the best. Maybe good for leaders if you go out in Helsinki as
appearantly there are a lot more good followers than leaders ...
Come to dance with us in Europe! It's worth it! Esp. in 'Holland'
(and also just over the border in germany, at Cologne, there's a
place called 'Tango Colon' ...every 2 weeks an all nighter!)
Happy travelling!
Christian
christian@eTanguero.net
https://www.eTanguero.net/
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:21:16 -0600
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
On 28 Jul 2004 at 21:28, Oleh Kovalchuke wrote:
>>> Someone told me that Berlin is the place to visit for tango in Europe.
<<<
Christian replied:
>>> Berlin can be fantastic ... and can be very bad. Tough scene, not too
open to externals (by my experience). [btw: I am german, I do speak
the language ;-) ] <<<
This matches my experience (two visits in the last 4 years, including
earlier this month). There's plenty going on, but the scene is fragmented -
it's hard to predict what good dancers are going to be where, among the vast
array of tango options in a given week. Best to make specific arrangements
with a group of people you know will be good partners. Many teachers, lots
of competition. But I had some absolutely spectacular very memorable
dances, and look forward to dancing with those partners on our next visit.
It helps a lot to have a knowledgeable local contact.
Note for fans of tanda-structured milongas - no cortinas. And the eye-game
is not always commonly used, but works pretty well anyway.
Oleh continued:
>>> Finland is also mentioned quite often. <<<
Christian responded:
>>> Finland is 'finnish Tango' ... argentine tango scene is small ... and
not the best. Maybe good for leaders if you go out in Helsinki as
appearantly there are a lot more good followers than leaders ...<<<
We had a great time in Finland - we fell in with some friends who are
Argentine tango fans, and the overall tango culture felt very supportive and
open. Tango as it is actually danced by most people in Finland is a small
subset of Argentine Tango possibilities. But once I adapted to different
navigational expectations, all was well. There is a stylized tango form
used for competition, sometimes called Nordic tango, which most people do
not do. The dance floors at their most dense (and they get VERY dense)
looked very much like any crowded milonga the world over. There is a STRONG
preference to dancing to live vocal music, as opposed to recorded music.
Many songs are Argentine-tango-esque in melody and character, if not in
orchestration.
I can also mention that the tango scene in Copenhagen felt very lively, even
though some events were on Summer holiday. I had some great dances at
several milongas, including outdoor milongas in the long northern midsummer
nights. The recently completed bridge/tunnel connecting Denmark and Sweden
has allowed some merging of the Danish and Swedish tango scenes, to mutual
benefit.
It was really fascinating to connect with the tango scene in several
different countries - we felt like "tango anthropologists"!
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 18:41:44 -0600
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe, minor revision
Oops - in my previous message describing tango in Finland, I said:
"There is a STRONG preference to dancing to live vocal music, as opposed to
recorded music."
I should have said:
"There is a STRONG preference to dancing to vocal music (preferably live),
as opposed to purely instrumental music."
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 09:00:28 -0700
From: Tango Luna <tangoluna@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
This past April I went to Italy and I recommend Rome. Good dancers,
wonderful city, friendly people. And, oh, the food is pretty good, too.
Pia
>From: Christian L|then <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
>Reply-To: christian.luethen@gmx.net
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 00:39:17 +0200
>
>On 28 Jul 2004 at 21:28, Oleh Kovalchuke wrote:
>
> > Someone told me that Berlin is the place to visit for tango in Europe.
>Berlin can be fantastic ... and can be very bad. Tough scene, not too
>open to externals (by my experience). [btw: I am german, I do speak
>the language ;-) ]
>
> > Better than Netherlands. Is it true?
>NO! :-) Dutch Tango is the best in Europe (people go out to dance ...
>to dance ... to dance ...) ... if not outside Argentina. ;-)) "Tango-
>Mekka" outside Buenos Aires is to be found at Nijmegen, The
>Netherlands ... at a place called "El Corte". But: Summerbreak for
>the moment, otherwise (sept. through april) the weekend of the first
>saturday of the month. Only option in summer: the summer weekend (3rd
>weekend in august) ... but not as good as the "chained salons" at the
>beginning of a month.
>
>BUT: Be aware ... you'll have to be prepared to nearly two days of
>contineous dancing ... all nighters included. :-))
>
> > Finland is also mentioned quite often.
>Finland is 'finnish Tango' ... argentine tango scene is small ... and
>not the best. Maybe good for leaders if you go out in Helsinki as
>appearantly there are a lot more good followers than leaders ...
>
>Come to dance with us in Europe! It's worth it! Esp. in 'Holland'
>(and also just over the border in germany, at Cologne, there's a
>place called 'Tango Colon' ...every 2 weeks an all nighter!)
>
>Happy travelling!
>Christian
>
>
>christian@eTanguero.net
>https://www.eTanguero.net/
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 18:48:05 +0300
From: "Aydogan (Encuentro)" <aydogan@TANGOENCUENTRO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
Come to Istanbul ! You will be surprised !
:-))))))))))
Aydogan
www.tangoencuentro.com
www.tangointurkey.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 29 Temmuz 2004 Per~embe 00:28
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
Marco shared his opinion on tango scene in different countries in Europe:
>Join the club Daniel, everyone prefers Argentina... But after Argentina?
>What? England? France? Turkey? Italy? I say Netherlands...
I am thinking about going for a short vacation in Europe. So this info is
actually quite interesting. I also like your definition of good tango.
Someone told me that Berlin is the place to visit for tango in Europe.
Better than Netherlands. Is it true? Finland is also mentioned quite often.
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com 24 days till Tango in the Park milonga in Manitou
Springs
>From: Tango Dancer <tango_1908@YAHOO.COM>
>Reply-To: Tango Dancer <tango_1908@YAHOO.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango and Politics 2004
>Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:54:47 -0700
>
> >Dutch tango is Dutch tango (with some exceptions, of course). I
>
> >prefer Argentina.
>
>
>
>Join the club Daniel, everyone prefers Argentina... But after Argentina?
>What? England? France? Turkey? Italy? I say Netherlands...
>
>
>
> > iii. You say "and they are - by far- the best dancers -after the
>
> > Argentinians". Nonsensical statement. How can you attribute great or
>
> > even good dancing to any one nationality...???!
>
>
>
>You cannot.
>
>It is just a matter of kilometers/miles
>
>Milongas in Netherlands are much better than any other place in Europe
>
>And people there dance a lot...
>
>
>
>And further more, here are my personal statistics:
>
>(A) 9 out of 10 of Dutch followers, just by embracing me, they make me
>feel
>
> like a king
>
>(B) 5 out of 10 non Dutch European ladies make me insecure with their
>
> embrace (you feel that something is missing there)
>
>
>
>and:
>
>in (B) I have to be really careful and selective with my partners
>
>in (A) I am not selective at all (I don't need to be selective in
>Netherlands)
>
>
>
>-I am not anti-American at all. I just disagree with US foreign policy.
>
> Democrats & Republicans are the same. They believe in the same God: U$D
>
>-no personal attack to u or anyone else
>
>-I hate writing or reading long emails
>
>-All the above come from my personal experience (ie. 50% chances to be
>
> completely wrong)
>
>
>
>ciao,
>
>marco
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:05:08 -0600
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
Pia wrote:
>>>>
This past April I went to Italy and I recommend Rome. Good dancers,
wonderful city, friendly people. And, oh, the food is pretty good, too.
Pia
<<<<
YES! We were in Italy two years ago, mostly in Tuscany and Venice, and
managed to attend one milonga in Rome before our plane took off in the
morning. Very friendly, warm accepting vibe (2002=after 9/11, before Iraq),
great dances, good music, and INCREDIBLE food - but watch out for the
traffic! As the mayor of Naples was quoted as saying about traffic light
customs: "In Italy, green means 'avanti, avanti(go)!' Red is purely
advisory, and yellow - yellow is purely decorative..."
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:25:30 -0500
From: Bibi Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango in Europe
>>What? England? France? Turkey? Italy? I say Netherlands...
I second to that. With "tolerance" being the motto of the Netherlands,
something about the open-mindedness that gives fresh air to Argentine Tango.
Several communities there synergize the dancers worldwide who share the
same aspiration. It grooms the future generations of argentine tango. I
feel freedom and joy there, not rules and no-nos which depress me..... I
will return to the Netherlands in a heart beat.
Some European dancers told me Berlin might have lost its past glory, while
Turkey is a upcoming blooming area. These are strictly hear-says.
Bibi
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:06:26 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe (Rome)
> Pia wrote:
> >>>>
> This past April I went to Italy and I recommend Rome. Good dancers,
> wonderful city, friendly people. And, oh, the food is pretty good, too.
> Pia
> <<<<
>
> YES! We were in Italy two years ago, mostly in Tuscany and Venice, and
> managed to attend one milonga in Rome before our plane took off in the
> morning. Very friendly, warm accepting vibe (2002=after 9/11, before
Iraq),
> great dances, good music, and INCREDIBLE food - but watch out for the
> traffic! As the mayor of Naples was quoted as saying about traffic light
> customs: "In Italy, green means 'avanti, avanti(go)!' Red is purely
> advisory, and yellow - yellow is purely decorative..."
>
I took a video of a couple of Italians dancing on the cobble stones on
Piazza Navona in Rome at night. They had a sign up for
www.tangocontemporaneo.com, a Roman website run by Cesare, the man in the
couple, with info on milongas and other things.
I also was so stunned by Roman traffic, that I stood filming an intersection
for 3 minutes, taking footage of hundreds of cars, vans, buses, bicycles,
motorbikes in wild mixed disarray, all threading themselves somehow from
various directions into one street without ever hitting each other. Scary,
mindboggling, but awesome ! You better take the subway, however: in Rome,
ticket machines do not have change. If you want change, you have to leave
the station again, walk up the street to the next tobacco shop and buy your
ticket subway there! Also remember, that strangely, May is high season Rome
while August is the time for great disounts at the hotels.
Astrid
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:21:00 +0100
From: "John H. Walton" <jwalton@CIX.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
Don't discount the UK! The Argentine Tango scene is very active here,
especially in the larger cities, such as London. We also have many
Argentinean teachers.
Best Regards, John
https://www.danceweb.co.uk/tango
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:39:54 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
My memory of Berlin from a couple years ago is that they danced rather
well, but "complicated". Many more steps than I personally use, or that
you would see at a typical Buenos Aires milonga. At a couple places
navigation was HORRIBLE, as if they'd never heard of line of dance.
Maybe Berlin is the biggest tango city in Europe?
I believe it is the oldest tango scene of the new tango revival, dating
from 1979, four years before Buenos Aires started growing again.
I have an interesting question:
WHY would some cities be good and others not so good?
Cultural factors?
Teachers?
DJs?
Not to start a rant on styles, but maybe some other cities are better
for stage tango, another for Gustavo/Nuevo-inspired, another for the
trance and another for Milonguero/close-embrace.
Cities would a close-embrace dancer find more interesting?
This is not an idle question. The different cities give us experiments,
that we organizers and teachers could look at strategically, perhaps
even changing what they do.
On Jul 28, 2004, at 4:39 PM, Christian Lüthen wrote:
> On 28 Jul 2004 at 21:28, Oleh Kovalchuke wrote:
>
>> Someone told me that Berlin is the place to visit for tango in Europe.
> Berlin can be fantastic ... and can be very bad. Tough scene, not too
> open to externals (by my experience). [btw: I am german, I do speak
> the language ;-) ]
>
>> Better than Netherlands. Is it true?
> NO! :-) Dutch Tango is the best in Europe (people go out to dance ...
> to dance ... to dance ...) ... if not outside Argentina. ;-)) "Tango-
> Mekka" outside Buenos Aires is to be found at Nijmegen, The
> Netherlands ... at a place called "El Corte". But: Summerbreak for
Tom Stermitz
2525 Birch St
Denver, CO 80207
h: 303-388-2560
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 14:31:17 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
"WHY would some cities be good and others not so good?"
I don't know about Europe, but from what I have observed in the US, it
has to do with social vs. stage dancing.
Cities where dancers prefer stage/fancy steps have a significant less
dance level (in my opinion), and interestingly enough, I also have
observed that Piazzola/Pugliese and alternative music are predominately
played in those cities.
Wonder if anybody else has observed the same?
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 10:40 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
My memory of Berlin from a couple years ago is that they danced rather
well, but "complicated". Many more steps than I personally use, or that
you would see at a typical Buenos Aires milonga. At a couple places
navigation was HORRIBLE, as if they'd never heard of line of dance.
Maybe Berlin is the biggest tango city in Europe?
I believe it is the oldest tango scene of the new tango revival, dating
from 1979, four years before Buenos Aires started growing again.
I have an interesting question:
WHY would some cities be good and others not so good?
Cultural factors?
Teachers?
DJs?
Not to start a rant on styles, but maybe some other cities are better
for stage tango, another for Gustavo/Nuevo-inspired, another for the
trance and another for Milonguero/close-embrace.
Cities would a close-embrace dancer find more interesting?
This is not an idle question. The different cities give us experiments,
that we organizers and teachers could look at strategically, perhaps
even changing what they do.
On Jul 28, 2004, at 4:39 PM, Christian Lüthen wrote:
> On 28 Jul 2004 at 21:28, Oleh Kovalchuke wrote:
>
>> Someone told me that Berlin is the place to visit for tango in
Europe.
> Berlin can be fantastic ... and can be very bad. Tough scene, not too
> open to externals (by my experience). [btw: I am german, I do speak
> the language ;-) ]
>
>> Better than Netherlands. Is it true?
> NO! :-) Dutch Tango is the best in Europe (people go out to dance ...
> to dance ... to dance ...) ... if not outside Argentina. ;-)) "Tango-
> Mekka" outside Buenos Aires is to be found at Nijmegen, The
> Netherlands ... at a place called "El Corte". But: Summerbreak for
Tom Stermitz
2525 Birch St
Denver, CO 80207
h: 303-388-2560
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:09:45 -0700
From: Tango Luna <tangoluna@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
Hi John,
Sorry, but after dancing in Italy -- Rome and Tuscany --I went to London for
a week in May. Went to two milongas and was disappointed after experiencing
dancing in Italy. I did not find the people friendly. Chilly as the
weather, I'd say, and the dancing was not as good. Sorry, that's just my
sole opinion and not a general statement of affairs in the UK. Maybe it was
an off week. Anyway, I'm sure you would disagree with me since I was just
passing through and did not truly know the scene. Ciao, Pia
>From: "John H. Walton" <jwalton@CIX.CO.UK>
>Reply-To: jwalton@cix.co.uk
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
>Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:21:00 +0100
>
>Don't discount the UK! The Argentine Tango scene is very active here,
>especially in the larger cities, such as London. We also have many
>Argentinean teachers.
>
>Best Regards, John
>https://www.danceweb.co.uk/tango
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:50:40 +0200
From: Melina Sedo <melinasedo@ONLINEHOME.DE>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe - good and not so good tango cities
Hi all, hi Tom,
well, I'm living in Europe (Germany) and I travelled quite a lot in
order to dance in different cities. Here's my opinion:
Whether a cities is good or not so good does not only depend on how
long the scene exists or how many people it contains. I think there are
basically three questions to answer:
1. Do the people dance stage tango or salon tango? (no styles
discussion here ;-)
I think we do not have to discuss the fact, that dancing at a Milonga
where everybody believes to be a showstar is quite difficult...
2. What do the DJ's play? Piazzolla-like modern stuff that was made for
listening or danceable tangos?
Connected to No. 1. Music is the most important factor for dancers,
isn't it?
3. Are the people open and do they appreciate having guests?
A lot of the bigger and older Tango-cities are not very welcoming
towards Tango-travellers. They won't even dance with you . Why should
they? There are a lot of people there already, dancing fairly well...
maybe all are dancing the same style as they are not travelling a lot
either... Why should they???
So, in my opinion there are quite a lot smaller Tango-scenes, which are
much nicer to visit, than the great citis: there may not be 200 good
tango dancers, but the 20 better dancers will invite you frequently
because they are happy you're there. And: as they are eager to dance
more than one weekly Milonga permits, they'll travel around a lot,
watch, learn, get different views... and develop a distinguished
style...
So, if you're visiting Europe watch out for the small jewels. ;-)
Cheers,
Melina
Melina Sedó & Detlef Engel
www.tangodesalon.de
tango@tangodesalon.de
(0049) (0)681 9381839
(0049) (0)177 4340669
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:49:23 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe - good and not so good tango cities
A lot of the bigger and older Tango-cities are not very welcoming
towards Tango-travellers. They won't even dance with you . So, in my opinion
there are quite a lot smaller Tango-scenes, which are
much nicer to visit, than the great citis: there may not be 200 good
tango dancers, but the 20 better dancers will invite you frequently
because they are happy you're there.So, if you're visiting Europe watch out
for the small jewels. ;-)
Melina
Melina,
you are so right. I can completely second that.
Berlin can be one hell of a tough place to get anyone to dance with you. At
least in one of the "Salons", I don't even go there anymore during my home
vacations, because it is a ticket to an evening on the couch, practically.
At "Walzerlinksgestrickt", where, according to the internet tango guide, the
"arrogance of the Berliner dancers is the greatest", however, it wasn't so
hard, I danced a lot. But maybe, things have changed? I could not see any
reason for arrogance there, in Tokyo, actually, the tango level now is
higher...But at least, there were no people, who could NOT dance.
And yes, other, smaller places, are much more welcoming to visitors. Years
ago, on my first German tango trip, I found the tango community of Konstanz
am Bodensee (Lake Constance?) on the internet. So I called the phone number,
got the teacher, and she offered to drive by the house I was staying, pick
me up in her Volkswagen Beetle, and take me with her to the milonga ! And
she did, introduced me to everyone, I had a really nice time, and even got
invited by someone to accompany him to another tango event a few days later.
Similarly in Sevilla, Spain, last year, when I finally succeeded in finding
the milonga in town, everybody was really friendly and welcoming, and asked
me to come back next week. Yes, visiting small tango communities is really
interesting, Melina.
Here in Tokyo tonight, we had a visitor from Hamburg at "La Milonga". He had
asked on the internet before he came, if someone from the tango scene could
show him around. One well known Japanese tanguera answered his posting, and
she took him to several milongas here. Tonight, at our usual weekly tombola,
the host asked him to pull two names out of the hat blindly. Then the host
exclaimed:"I can't believe this ! You must have been cheating ! Show me your
hands, do you have eyes on your fingers?" The man had pulled the names of
himself and that tanguera... Now, I do not quite trust the way, that tombola
is conducted, but all the same, I thought, it was a nice gesture to let them
win the prizes, which ever way it came about. (Yes, that milonga is
smallish, but it is one of many places in Tokyo, where one can dance tango,
our tango scene is quite big.)
Astrid
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:22:38 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay (E-mail)" <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
Yes, Carlos, I have observed the same. What I also observe at those "not so
good" cities is a certain amount of "hero worship" - every step, exercise
and pattern must be sanctioned by a big Argentine name. I hear things like
"I learned this from X" or "This was taught by X" or "but X said you must do
it this way". In cities where the level is high (like Portland, you lucky
#$%#&) perhaps the local teachers have made the dance approachable and given
students permission to make it their own.
Yes, and music!! A DJ can make or break a city! I don't care how perfectly a
person can dance complicated steps - if it's not to the music, it's just no
good!
We had a young doctor from Southampton visit us last year, and he was an
exquisite dancer. The unusual part was that he didn't think he was one of
the better dancers there.
Lois, Minnesota
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Rojas [mailto:Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 4:31 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
>
>
> "WHY would some cities be good and others not so good?"
>
> I don't know about Europe, but from what I have observed in
> the US, it has to do with social vs. stage dancing. Cities
> where dancers prefer stage/fancy steps have a significant
> less dance level (in my opinion), and interestingly enough, I
> also have observed that Piazzola/Pugliese and alternative
> music are predominately played in those cities.
>
> Wonder if anybody else has observed the same?
>
> Carlos Rojas
> Portland, OR
>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:37:29 +0200
From: "Hélčne Eckert" <Helene.Eckert@ITU.INT>
Subject: tango in Europe
Hello ! I am coming back from the "tangowoche" in Zurich (Switzerland), an
10 days festival with a perfect organisation, milongas every night, many
classes with top maestros like Chicho and Eugenia, Julio y Corina and many
others..Well, I was VERY impressed by the level of dancing... and I
gathered it does reflect the level of dancing there in ordinary times...
with a lot of very good dancers, milongas every night of the week... I
found a very good energy there ! I live in Geneva (Switzerland also), which
is not a "tango mecca", but where the tango community is steadily growing,
and the level noticeably improving... so watch out for tango events here !
Hélčne
www.almatango.com
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:30:23 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe - good and not so good tango cities
What cities and events are interesting for tango can depend upon whether
you are traveling alone or with a dance partner. Susan and I found an
absolutely charming practica far off the beaten track in Paris, where
arriving with a dance partner was absolutely essential to joining in the
activities. Once we were able to demonstrate that we could dance, other
people were more willing to dance with us. And when they didn't dance
with us, we had each other. The quality of the music and a fairly strict
observance of the ronda made the practica well worth attending.
--Steve
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:20:31 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
Lois wrote:
"Yes, and music!! A DJ can make or break a city! I don't care how perfectly
person can dance complicated steps - if it's not to the music, it's just no
good!"
We should hold Lois' statement as one of tango commandments, if we want to
grow, improve and maintain our tango communities.
Musicality is not easy, especially for those of us who are not musicians,
hopefully as we continue to put miles in the dance floor, we start to
realize that tango steps match tango music (it took me 5 years), then once
you hear the music and feel it through your dance, it is very difficult (if
not impossible) to dance to non danceable tango music.
I usually don't see many workshops on musicality, much less musicality for
women which in my experience bear a large responsibility for it. It is such
a pleasure to dance with a woman that maintains the musicality in the dance.
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:23 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
Yes, Carlos, I have observed the same. What I also observe at those "not so
good" cities is a certain amount of "hero worship" - every step, exercise
and pattern must be sanctioned by a big Argentine name. I hear things like
"I learned this from X" or "This was taught by X" or "but X said you must do
it this way". In cities where the level is high (like Portland, you lucky
#$%#&) perhaps the local teachers have made the dance approachable and given
students permission to make it their own.
Yes, and music!! A DJ can make or break a city! I don't care how perfectly a
person can dance complicated steps - if it's not to the music, it's just no
good!
We had a young doctor from Southampton visit us last year, and he was an
exquisite dancer. The unusual part was that he didn't think he was one of
the better dancers there.
Lois, Minnesota
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carlos Rojas [mailto:Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 4:31 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
>
>
> "WHY would some cities be good and others not so good?"
>
> I don't know about Europe, but from what I have observed in
> the US, it has to do with social vs. stage dancing. Cities
> where dancers prefer stage/fancy steps have a significant
> less dance level (in my opinion), and interestingly enough, I
> also have observed that Piazzola/Pugliese and alternative
> music are predominately played in those cities.
>
> Wonder if anybody else has observed the same?
>
> Carlos Rojas
> Portland, OR
>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:40:03 -0500
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
we start to realize that tango steps match tango
> music (it took me 5 years), then once you hear the music and
> feel it through your dance, it is very difficult (if not
> impossible) to dance to non danceable tango music.
Bless, you, Carlos...
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:04:35 -0700
From: Sean Dockery <sean13@MYREALBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
No personal offence anybody, but by definition it is impossible to dance anything to non-dancable music. Can I have a list of the non-dancables ple=
ase?
_____________________________
we start to realize that tango steps match tango
> music (it took me 5 years), then once you hear the music and
> feel it through your dance, it is very difficult (if not
> impossible) to dance to non danceable tango music.
Bless, you, Carlos...
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:14:54 -0300
From: Rubén Carlos Terbalca <rubenmilonga@SINECTIS.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
but, if somebody don't like the Tango?
Ruben
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango in Europe
No personal offence anybody, but by definition it is impossible to dance
anything to non-dancable music. Can I have a list of the non-dancables
please?
_____________________________
we start to realize that tango steps match tango
> music (it took me 5 years), then once you hear the music and
> feel it through your dance, it is very difficult (if not
> impossible) to dance to non danceable tango music.
Bless, you, Carlos...
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:27:34 -0700
From: Tango Dancer <tango_1908@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango in Europe
>No personal offence anybody, but by definition it is impossible to dance anything to >non-dancable music. Can I have a list of the non-dancables please?
you are absolutly right
but before asking for non-dancable music, ask for the definition of "dance",
and then perhaps for the definition of "music"...
Marco
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:43:28 -0300
From: Juan Fabbri <JFabbri@TANGOCITY.COM>
Subject: SOLO TANGO IN EUROPE .. FREE
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