2577  What is not a Milonga

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 23:05:04 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: What is not a Milonga

David drew some conclusions as described in his note.

There is nothing absolute in tango.
The rules of the milongas of Buenos Aires do not have to be followed abroad,
mostly if your milongas are not crowded and you dispose of lots of free
space. However many codes have an important reason to exist as they were
developed to prevent or correct problems or to assure that the tango
experience was a real one and not a pale imitation.

1) Do not teach. Ever!

I am glad that you seem to finally understand. The milonga is a sacred place
that has its own codes and rituals that should be respected. Those codes
were developed over 130 years of tango history and have a reason to exist.
The milonga is a place (among other things) to see your friends, to meet
people, to watch other people dancing, a place to listen to the music and to
dance. It is not a place to teach.
Here you should practice "concentration", relaxation while keeping the right
frame, listening to your inner feelings, being flooded by the music,
spiritually communicating with your partner as you dance, learning how to
feel and enjoy tango music. Your failure to do so will cause you to end up
dancing tango as it was fox-trot to some non tango music, and then you will
never discover the real meaning of tango all while claiming that you really
understand and enjoy "Golden era tango music" and dance Argentine Tango..

Places to teach are generally called "lessons", "class", "workshop",
"congress", etc.

You should try to have some time to practice after your tango lessons (for
instance) or get a partner to regularly practice in some place that is
available to you. You should try to practice as frequently as possible.

But remember you can do whatever you want at your milongas.
Good luck!

2) Similarly, to avoid interrupting other people, you
should refrain from all conversation. Possibly it
would be ok to quietly introduce yourself, but only
during the cortina. Possibly.

Tango dancing requires that you are concentrated in the music, your
feelings, your communication with your partner, the rest of the dancers, the
space around you. To be talking while dancing tango shows disrespect to your
partner (you are preventing her from concentrating) and points to the fact
that you have no idea of what tango means. Most women will not dance with
somebody who talks while dancing.

3) Avoid moving too slowly (thus impeding the flow of
traffic) or moving to quickly (and pushing into the
space of the couple before you). Also, don't change
"lanes" by going to either side. This could cause a
collision!

This is true, you can do differently if you have plenty of space and do not
disturb other dancers.
When you go out driving your car you may not obey any traffic rules either.
Good luck!

Don't try to meet people of the opposite sex at a
Milonga! Nor at a class or practica or anything
related to Tango. Your bumbling and failure in this
relationship could turn them away from tango forever!
If you want to meet people at work, or at church, that
is ok. Never in Tango!

Here the codes are very complicated to explain at this time. What you say is
not true.

5) Note that you can only dance steps you know
extremely well at the Milonga.

You may experiment as long as you do not disturb your partner or the other
dancers.

6) The collective tango
communities of the world will have to figure out
something to do with them. In the mean time, never
accept a dance with one.

You should practice and teach where ever pleases you except at the milongas.
If what you call a milonga is a place to teach, make corrections and
practice, it should be called a practica.

It is very easy: you can change the name of your Milonga to "Practica" and
you will be compliant, you will be able to do all sort of things, you will
be happy, you will improve your technique but you will not be dancing
Argentine Tango yet.
You will dance the tango choreography robotically like many others that I
know, at this point it really does not matter what kind of music you play,
the dance will have a totally different feeling if any at all.

Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 16:23:47 -0700
From: Michael <michael@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: What is not a Milonga

I respectfully and humbly bow at the feet of the Master, who has said it
much better and with more truth than anything I could ever say. Thank
you, Sergio - as usual, you cut to the heart of the matter immediately.

Sergio Vandekier wrote:

> David drew some conclusions as described in his note.
>
> There is nothing absolute in tango.
> The rules of the milongas of Buenos Aires do not have to be followed
> abroad,
> mostly if your milongas are not crowded and you dispose of lots of free
> space. However many codes have an important reason to exist as they were
> developed to prevent or correct problems or to assure that the tango
> experience was a real one and not a pale imitation.
>
> 1) Do not teach. Ever!
>
> I am glad that you seem to finally understand. The milonga is a sacred
> place
> that has its own codes and rituals that should be respected. Those codes
> were developed over 130 years of tango history and have a reason to exist.
> The milonga is a place (among other things) to see your friends, to meet
> people, to watch other people dancing, a place to listen to the music
> and to
> dance. It is not a place to teach.
> Here you should practice "concentration", relaxation while keeping the
> right
> frame, listening to your inner feelings, being flooded by the music,
> spiritually communicating with your partner as you dance, learning how to
> feel and enjoy tango music. Your failure to do so will cause you to end up
> dancing tango as it was fox-trot to some non tango music, and then you will
> never discover the real meaning of tango all while claiming that you really
> understand and enjoy "Golden era tango music" and dance Argentine Tango..
>
> Places to teach are generally called "lessons", "class", "workshop",
> "congress", etc.
>
> You should try to have some time to practice after your tango lessons (for
> instance) or get a partner to regularly practice in some place that is
> available to you. You should try to practice as frequently as possible.
>
> But remember you can do whatever you want at your milongas.
> Good luck!
>
> 2) Similarly, to avoid interrupting other people, you
> should refrain from all conversation. Possibly it
> would be ok to quietly introduce yourself, but only
> during the cortina. Possibly.
>
> Tango dancing requires that you are concentrated in the music, your
> feelings, your communication with your partner, the rest of the dancers,
> the
> space around you. To be talking while dancing tango shows disrespect to
> your
> partner (you are preventing her from concentrating) and points to the fact
> that you have no idea of what tango means. Most women will not dance with
> somebody who talks while dancing.
>
> 3) Avoid moving too slowly (thus impeding the flow of
> traffic) or moving to quickly (and pushing into the
> space of the couple before you). Also, don't change
> "lanes" by going to either side. This could cause a
> collision!
>
> This is true, you can do differently if you have plenty of space and do not
> disturb other dancers.
> When you go out driving your car you may not obey any traffic rules either.
> Good luck!
>
> Don't try to meet people of the opposite sex at a
> Milonga! Nor at a class or practica or anything
> related to Tango. Your bumbling and failure in this
> relationship could turn them away from tango forever!
> If you want to meet people at work, or at church, that
> is ok. Never in Tango!
>
> Here the codes are very complicated to explain at this time. What you
> say is
> not true.
>
> 5) Note that you can only dance steps you know
> extremely well at the Milonga.
>
> You may experiment as long as you do not disturb your partner or the other
> dancers.
>
> 6) The collective tango
> communities of the world will have to figure out
> something to do with them. In the mean time, never
> accept a dance with one.
>
> You should practice and teach where ever pleases you except at the
> milongas.
> If what you call a milonga is a place to teach, make corrections and
> practice, it should be called a practica.
>
> It is very easy: you can change the name of your Milonga to "Practica" and
> you will be compliant, you will be able to do all sort of things, you will
> be happy, you will improve your technique but you will not be dancing
> Argentine Tango yet.
> You will dance the tango choreography robotically like many others that I
> know, at this point it really does not matter what kind of music you play,
> the dance will have a totally different feeling if any at all.
>
>

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 12:46:52 -0700
From: David <pachelbels_canon_in_d_major@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: (Sergio) What is not a Milonga

Sergio,

A reply to your post:

> There is nothing absolute in tango.

Yes.

> However many codes have an important reason to exist
> as they were developed to prevent or correct
> problems

Yes.

> to assure that the tango experience was a real one
> and not a pale imitation

I disagree. Codes don't do that -- a skill and
understading of the dance does that. Codes are social
constructions, for social reasons (but not, I think,
for 'dance functional' reasons).

> 1) Do not teach ... The milonga is a sacred
> place that has its own codes and rituals that should
> be respected. Those codes were developed over 130
> years of tango history and have a reason to
> exist. Your failure to do so will cause you to
> end up dancing tango as it was fox-trot to some non
> tango music, and then you will never discover the
> real meaning of tango

As I replied to Michael -- the history should be
questioned, both because we should always question and
because those codes developed in a radically different
enviornment/culture (lower-class Latin America).

As far as making the tango a fox trot ... once again,
one's understanding of the tango is less about
respecting codes (a social thing) and more about
dance.

> But remember you can do whatever you want at your
> milongas.

Yes. I guess the question is whether it is so
insufferably rude and distracting, that it ruins the
Milonga for everyone (or many) others.

> 2: Tango dancing requires that you are concentrated
> in the music, your feelings, your communication with

> your partner, the rest of the dancers, the space
> around you.

I couldn't agree more! It is funny how even in the
midst of relatively violent disagreement, there are
these islands of complete agreement.

> To be talking while dancing tango shows disrespect
> to your partner (you are preventing her from
> concentrating) and points to the fact that you have
> no idea of what tango means. Most women will not
> dance with somebody who talks while dancing.

*Grins*. I couldn't disagree more! I'm only
disrespecting my partner if I intend disrespect or she
feels disrespect.

Further, it doesn't mean that "I have not idea what
tango means" -- only that what I think tango means is
different from what you think tango means.

Finally, I guarantee you that most women will dance
with someone who talks (me: softly, and some). I went
to a Milonga last night. No one said "no", and there
were many smiles and moments shared by all (me
included).

Huck and I live in the same tango community (Phoenix).
We tend to hold many different views of what tango
is. Still, Huck, would you be willing to reply to
Sergio saying whether the women appear to enjoy
dancing with me? (Someone who does occasionally
talk). Or, say that they don't if they don't (I would
like to know).

> 4) -- Not directly addressed.
>
> 3) Follow line of dance, don't move too slow or
> fast, etc.: This is true, you can do differently if
> you have plenty of space and do not disturb other
> dancers. When you go out driving your car you may
> not obey any traffic rules either.

I agree completely. I actually like the traffic
analogy. Sometimes it is safe to make a U-turn, other
times it isn't. Use good judgement, and don't get
into accidents (or even risk them).

> > Note that you can only dance steps you know
> > extremely well at the Milonga.
>
> You may experiment as long as you do not disturb
> your partner or the other dancers.

Hm. I think I agree. Sometimes I ask a partner if
she minds if I try something. Usually they say they
don't mind. No doubt it distrubs the flow of the
dance, but the partners never seem to mind.

> 6: It is very easy: you can change the name of your
> Milonga to "Practica" and you will be compliant, you

> will be able to do all sort of things, you will be
> happy, you will improve your technique but you will
> not be dancing Argentine Tango yet.

Sergio, all respect given, it isn't for you to say
whether I'm dancing tango or not. I may not be
dancing *your* tango, but it can still be *my* tango.
One of the wonderful things about tango is that there
isn't just one way, and that it lets you make it
personal, make it yours.

Best,
David