4322 yale tango, male followers
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 14:34:58 -0400
From: "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
To: "'tango-l@mit.edu'" <tango-l@mit.edu>
<1A48EE91A5DFFC4BB2FC91C122470E310319EDF8@lawman-ex01.lawlan.nycnet>
Tine, I decided to post only a part of my correspondance, hope you dont
mind. :).
The posts about the Yale Tango Club reflect an inequality in this culture.
The women in your club feel comfortable dancing with each other, and the men
expressed a willingness to be led by the women, rather than sit out and
watch. Big Deal. How would the women at your club feel if there were no
"gay" stigma attached to two men dancing together, and the men were secure
enough in their sexual orientation not to fear dancing with other men, and
they found it fun, and started to do it more often, and the women are now
sitting on the sideline or forced to dance with each other more than they
like?
In other cultures, (straight) men will hug their male friends, kiss on the
cheek in greeting. You dont see that too often in the USA. You also infer
how the men in your club even enjoyed watching two women dancing, before
they got bored sitting out. It is more rare to see two men dancing
together in NYC milonga than two women, but when it happens, the women use
negative stereotypical slurs, I never hear them say, "wow, thats hot, two
guys dancing together", even if they know the men are hetero. Incidentally,
one of the most amazingly precise musicality nuevo performances I ever saw
was Alex Krebs in DC dancing with a man, I forgot his name. What will you
women do if more men realize that nuevo can become an athletic sport, like a
martial art, that men will prefer to do with other men for the physical
challenge ?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:03:12 -0400
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
"How would the women at your club feel if there were no
"gay" stigma attached to two men dancing together, and the men were secure
enough in their sexual orientation not to fear dancing with other men, and
they found it fun, and started to do it more often, and the women are now
sitting on the sideline or forced to dance with each other more than they
like? ......
What will you women do if more men realize that nuevo can become an athletic
sport, like a
martial art, that men will prefer to do with other men for the physical
challenge ?"
-- Nussbaum, Martin
That made me laugh. Sorry but I couldn't possibly take what you wrote
seriously.
Caroline
Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has
to offer.
first two months FREE*.
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:16:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hi Martin
Our more experienced guys also occasionally dance with each other and we don't think anything of it. The beginners usually don't, it takes some getting to know the rest of the crowd. Also nobody gets put on the spot, meaning people wouldn't ask unless they knew it was OK.
Those guys also sometimes ask me, when an accomplished male dancer wanders into our community, if I think the visitor would be weirded out if they asked him to lead them. They are interested in experiencing an advanced lead, and picking up some good ideas. These guys are our best dancers and they are very popular with the girls judging from the fact that they often end up dating them.
Not everybody does it and it doesn't happen every week. The reason is for skill and fun and novelty, or to show a move, not because of gender imbalance or a sexual agenda. We don't have a gender imbalance overall. And from what I can tell, in general tango attracts guys who want to dance with girls and girls who want to dance with guys. It's no different here and we spend the vast majority of our time doing just that. I'm not worried things will become a gender-neutral free-for-all.
Tine
"Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov> wrote: Tine, I decided to post only a part of my correspondance, hope you dont
mind. :).
The posts about the Yale Tango Club reflect an inequality in this culture.
The women in your club feel comfortable dancing with each other, and the men
expressed a willingness to be led by the women, rather than sit out and
watch. Big Deal. How would the women at your club feel if there were no
"gay" stigma attached to two men dancing together, and the men were secure
enough in their sexual orientation not to fear dancing with other men, and
they found it fun, and started to do it more often, and the women are now
sitting on the sideline or forced to dance with each other more than they
like?
In other cultures, (straight) men will hug their male friends, kiss on the
cheek in greeting. You dont see that too often in the USA. You also infer
how the men in your club even enjoyed watching two women dancing, before
they got bored sitting out. It is more rare to see two men dancing
together in NYC milonga than two women, but when it happens, the women use
negative stereotypical slurs, I never hear them say, "wow, thats hot, two
guys dancing together", even if they know the men are hetero. Incidentally,
one of the most amazingly precise musicality nuevo performances I ever saw
was Alex Krebs in DC dancing with a man, I forgot his name. What will you
women do if more men realize that nuevo can become an athletic sport, like a
martial art, that men will prefer to do with other men for the physical
challenge ?
************************
www.yaletangoclub.org
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:12:01 -0400
From: "TangoDC.com" <spatz@tangoDC.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Yale Tango Club wrote:
> Our more experienced guys also occasionally dance with each other and we don't think anything of it.
Gentlemen:
If you haven't tried following before, I highly recommend you consider
the following tips:
* Ask one of your buddies to take you for a spin, rather than a stranger
* Before you start, clarify whether or not you'll be lead-swapping, and
how often (e.g., between songs, or within songs)
* Have yourself a drink first, so you get a little *vague* between the ears
* Stay on your toes, as though you were wearing heels, so you can pivot
* Decide in advance how far you'd like to take things in case you
encounter one of those "tango moments"
* Don't start with a milonga
* Do give close embrace a shot
* Make sure you're wearing bright, reflective colors, so other dancers
can see you violating the line-of-dance (or else just wait until it
ain't so crowded)
* Don't let your right arm go all flimsy-- you won't be connected
* Keep your free (i.e., non-standing) leg very loose, so your partner
can tell where your weight is
* Try following again, the same night, after you've gone back to
leading, and see whether you've picked up enough material to chew on for
two months, or only one
Once you've experimented with that, leaders, I can also recommend
screwing around with the following, regardless of partner gender,
height, ethnic background, or age ("her" is used here for convenience only):
* Ask your partner to backlead on purpose, and see how well you can
follow her
* Ask your partner to alternate backleading and following (this may be
the default case anyway)
* Try leading normally, but with your right arm out instead of your left
(i.e., a mirrored embrace)
* Try backleading (i.e., you look like you're following, and do follower
moves)
* Try leading with both hands behind your back (the less you're shaped
like a sphere, the more challenging this will be)
Best of luck (Lord knows I need it),
Jake Spatz
Washington, DC
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 21:47:26 +0000
From: rockies@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
To: "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>, "'tango-l@mit.edu'"
<tango-l@mit.edu>
<052620062147.21618.4477776E000154030000547222064246130101009B9D@comcast.net>
Martin said:
(snip other stuff)
Incidentally,
> one of the most amazingly precise musicality nuevo performances I ever saw
> was Alex Krebs in DC dancing with a man, I forgot his name.
Normally I just lurk, but couldn't resist this thread. There is a video of Alex Performing with 'Evan' (no mention of last name) on his site - go to www.tangoberretin.com and click on 'video of Alex and Evan' It is well worth watching.
For what it's worth, here in Portland, it is similar to NYC, very liberal, and nobody cares whether you dance with someone of the same gender, although it's much less common to see men with men. Also, the women leaders are probably some of the best dancers in the country. If you dance with them, you know it's true. The same probably holds true of women leaders elsewhere - certainly many of the best women teachers are outstanding leaders also. When I first started tango, I preferred not to dance with men, but have changed my thinking on that, as it's an excellent way to improve ones tango. If you can make a clunky male follower do things, it's bound to improve what you can do with a responsive follower. I also volunteer to be lead by the women leaders. Why not? I've danced with Alex on both sides of the frame, and he's fantastic at either, also, as a great leader, he had me doing things in following that I didn't even know I could do! It was amazing!, and every bit as satisfy!
ing as
leading a good follower, just different. So, before anyone casts aspersions on it, if you're secure enough, try it, it can make a huge difference in your dancing.
Sadly, I'm orthopedically challenged right now, and not dancing... indefinitely. A tango addicts worst nightmare.
Ciao,
Randy Foo
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
To: rockies@comcast.net, "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>,
"'tango-l@mit.edu'" <tango-l@mit.edu>
Dear Martin:
I looked at the video, and I am sure that Alex is a
very nice guy, but if that is what goes on in Portland
and New York then I want to go to Paris or Buenos
Aires. Very nice dancing and cool steps, but ZERO
ELECTRICITY.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- rockies@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Martin said:
> (snip other stuff)
>
> Incidentally,
> > one of the most amazingly precise musicality nuevo
> performances I ever saw
> > was Alex Krebs in DC dancing with a man, I forgot
> his name.
>
> Normally I just lurk, but couldn't resist this
> thread. There is a video of Alex Performing with
> 'Evan' (no mention of last name) on his site - go
> to www.tangoberretin.com and click on 'video of
> Alex and Evan' It is well worth watching.
>
> For what it's worth, here in Portland, it is similar
> to NYC, very liberal, and nobody cares whether you
> dance with someone of the same gender, although it's
> much less common to see men with men. Also, the
> women leaders are probably some of the best dancers
> in the country. If you dance with them, you know
> it's true. The same probably holds true of women
> leaders elsewhere - certainly many of the best women
> teachers are outstanding leaders also. When I first
> started tango, I preferred not to dance with men,
> but have changed my thinking on that, as it's an
> excellent way to improve ones tango. If you can make
> a clunky male follower do things, it's bound to
> improve what you can do with a responsive follower.
> I also volunteer to be lead by the women leaders.
> Why not? I've danced with Alex on both sides of the
> frame, and he's fantastic at either, also, as a
> great leader, he had me doing things in following
> that I didn't even know I could do! It was amazing!,
> and every bit as satisfy!
> ing as
> leading a good follower, just different. So, before
> anyone casts aspersions on it, if you're secure
> enough, try it, it can make a huge difference in
> your dancing.
>
> Sadly, I'm orthopedically challenged right now, and
> not dancing... indefinitely. A tango addicts worst
> nightmare.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Randy Foo
>
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 19:58:05 -0400
From: mallpasso@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com, rockies@comcast.net, mnussbau@law.nyc.gov,
tango-l@mit.edu
Derik:
You are absolutely clueless. I can tell you ALL the women would rather dance with Alex than with you.
El Bandido de Tango
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Fri, 26 May 2006 15:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
Dear Martin:
I looked at the video, and I am sure that Alex is a
very nice guy, but if that is what goes on in Portland
and New York then I want to go to Paris or Buenos
Aires. Very nice dancing and cool steps, but ZERO
ELECTRICITY.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- rockies@comcast.net wrote:
>
> Martin said:
> (snip other stuff)
>
> Incidentally,
> > one of the most amazingly precise musicality nuevo
> performances I ever saw
> > was Alex Krebs in DC dancing with a man, I forgot
> his name.
>
> Normally I just lurk, but couldn't resist this
> thread. There is a video of Alex Performing with
> 'Evan' (no mention of last name) on his site - go
> to www.tangoberretin.com and click on 'video of
> Alex and Evan' It is well worth watching.
>
> For what it's worth, here in Portland, it is similar
> to NYC, very liberal, and nobody cares whether you
> dance with someone of the same gender, although it's
> much less common to see men with men. Also, the
> women leaders are probably some of the best dancers
> in the country. If you dance with them, you know
> it's true. The same probably holds true of women
> leaders elsewhere - certainly many of the best women
> teachers are outstanding leaders also. When I first
> started tango, I preferred not to dance with men,
> but have changed my thinking on that, as it's an
> excellent way to improve ones tango. If you can make
> a clunky male follower do things, it's bound to
> improve what you can do with a responsive follower.
> I also volunteer to be lead by the women leaders.
> Why not? I've danced with Alex on both sides of the
> frame, and he's fantastic at either, also, as a
> great leader, he had me doing things in following
> that I didn't even know I could do! It was amazing!,
> and every bit as satisfy!
> ing as
> leading a good follower, just different. So, before
> anyone casts aspersions on it, if you're secure
> enough, try it, it can make a huge difference in
> your dancing.
>
> Sadly, I'm orthopedically challenged right now, and
> not dancing... indefinitely. A tango addicts worst
> nightmare.
>
> Ciao,
>
> Randy Foo
>
>
>
>
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] yale tango, male followers
I looked at the video, and I am sure that Alex is a
very nice guy, but if that is what goes on in Portland
and New York then I want to go to Paris or Buenos
Aires. Very nice dancing and cool steps, but ZERO
ELECTRICITY.
Derik
derik-
if u have not, u must see los mananas- two brothers in bs as =
electricity
and recently jak karako and metin yazir performaned at stepping out
in nyc and had the place in the plam of their hands.
> I met and
> danced with a beautiful girl from Istanbul, Turkey,
> who is a mechanical engineer and an auditor.
> The leggy Italian girl from Rome, Italy is still
> here as well, working on her graduate degree, and her
> tango. Life is good.
as to these comments i have a comment...interesting that these
obviously very capable and accomplished WOMEN were foremost mentioned
for their physical attributes.
life is good and perhaps even better when a 'girl' isnt foremost
either beautiful or leggy...
a n d r e a
