1137 Just trying to help another tanguero
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 20:08:22 -0800
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Just trying to help another tanguero
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:57:40 -0500
From: manuel <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
Dear Bob, Luda and other tango friends,
While I understand the desire of many to have wonderful tango compilations,
etc, I will respectfully explain that what is being asked is illegal and
really not so good. Sure the DJs in BAires are making their own CDs, etc.
But it is all infringing copyrights laws plus is unfairly competing against
the tango music retailers who invest lots of money and time in their
business.
Sure, anybody with a CDRW can now produce all kinds of compilations from CDs
that they pay one time for and them sell as many as they can make for the
$.50 or so that a blank CD costs. I would suggest this is dishonest in many
ways and certainly not a subject to be discussed in a public forum.
If anybody wants to be a good DJ, the answer is buy lots of CDs and go to
lots of milongas, learn to dance tango well, learn about the music and
history of tango and pay dues like anybody else. There is something not
quite nice about these short cuts to instant DJhood
Manuel
> Hola Luda,
>
> I wander can you help.
> I would like to make contact with Buenos Aires DJ's
> that are offering for sale copies of their own Milonga
> compilations, with or without cortinas. I understand
> a 20 CD collection sells for 300 Pesos, got to be a
> good deal.
>
> So after this long winded preamble, would you mind
> sending a posting to Tango-L asking if I have been
> blocked, If you do I hope it doesn't enquiry doesn't
> come through on the listing.
>
> I have in the past had postings go through and never
> had one rejected, confused!!
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> From the bottom of the world. New Zealand.
>
> With kind regards
>
> Bob Ramsey-Turner
> PO Box 50 Waimauku
> Auckland 1250
> New Zealand
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 22:34:00 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
Bob asked:
> I wander can you help.
> I note from the postings to Tango-L that your postings
> get through without any trouble. Somehow or other I
> don't appear to get any response. .. I have even sent messages to the
moderator
> asking if I for some obscure reason am being blocked,
> with a plea to respond---nothing!!!
> Can anyone on the list help?
I cannot quite understand how you got blocked recently, but I have one very
sure feeling why you are not getting any response from the moderator. The
reason is: there is no moderator ! For all I know, Jim Lane was the last
moderator, doing moderation all by himself, after the other moderators quit,
and nobody new volunteered to help, and it appears, that a few months ago,
Jim quietly left. That is why all the stuff is getting through that would
have been censored before, and that is why I don't understand how your
posting got blocked. If the moderator blocks anything actively, it is always
starts with the second one, after the first offensive appeared on the list
and attracted his attention.
If anyone knows more than I do about what happened to moderation, please
tell us. Not that I miss it all that much.
Astrid
>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:06:22 -0800
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
I had a similar problem when I sent postings from a different computer than
the one I originally use to subscribe to Tango L. I guess that that the
Tango L server has a way to authenticate subscribers when they send
postings. It may also be that some computers that use XP computers and may
be sending several messages at once to the Tango L server, then the server
blocks the messages as if it is protecting itself from an attack. These are
just speculations and therefore not confirmed.
Bruno
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 5:34 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Just trying to help another tanguero
Bob asked:
> I wander can you help.
> I note from the postings to Tango-L that your postings
> get through without any trouble. Somehow or other I
> don't appear to get any response. .. I have even sent messages to the
moderator
> asking if I for some obscure reason am being blocked,
> with a plea to respond---nothing!!!
> Can anyone on the list help?
I cannot quite understand how you got blocked recently, but I have one very
sure feeling why you are not getting any response from the moderator. The
reason is: there is no moderator ! For all I know, Jim Lane was the last
moderator, doing moderation all by himself, after the other moderators quit,
and nobody new volunteered to help, and it appears, that a few months ago,
Jim quietly left. That is why all the stuff is getting through that would
have been censored before, and that is why I don't understand how your
posting got blocked. If the moderator blocks anything actively, it is always
starts with the second one, after the first offensive appeared on the list
and attracted his attention.
If anyone knows more than I do about what happened to moderation, please
tell us. Not that I miss it all that much.
Astrid
>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:50:49 -0700
From: Rick McGarrey <rickmcg@FLASH.NET>
Subject: Just trying to help another tanguero
Manuel says that it is illegal , unfair , dishonest , and not nice to copy
and distribute tango music. The post raises questions about Argentine
copyright law and whether certain music is or is not in the public domain. But
since he brought it up, it should be noted that it is also dishonest to
charge people to listen to music that you don't own the rights to.
Selling a few music compilation cd's, or collecting a few hundred dollars at
the door of a milonga is the really the same thing. Both use someone else's
music to make money- except that the milonga probably makes more. If Manuel is
really concerned about being scrupulously honest he needs to purchase a license
to play the music in public, and if he doesn't have one he should contact ASCAP
to obtain one before playing copyrighted music at his next milonga.
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:39:40 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
The venues where the milongas take place have licenses to play music to the
public. Nightclubs, Arts centers, etc.
Also, the cost of purchasing the tango CDs can easily run into the thousands
of dollars.
Manuel
> music to make money- except that the milonga probably makes more. If
Manuel is
> really concerned about being scrupulously honest he needs to purchase a
license
> to play the music in public, and if he doesn't have one he should contact
ASCAP
> to obtain one before playing copyrighted music at his next milonga.
>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 12:33:35 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
Luda sent in the following message from Bob Ramsey-Turner in New Zealand:
>I note from the postings to Tango-L that your postings
>get through without any trouble. Somehow or other I
>don't appear to get any response.
I attempted to respond privately to Bob at
<bob.ramsey-turner@quicksilver.net> but my email bounced off as
undeliverable. As Astrid pointed out, Tango-L/Tango-A no longer seems to
have an active administrator or moderator. Mailbox problems or changes in
email addresses may affect one's ability to post to Tango-L. Rejected
posting generate return messages explaining why the posting has been
rejected.
People are having trouble with Tango-L can try sending an inquiry to
<TANGO-L-Request@mitvma.mit.edu>
Of course, it would be useful to have a mailbox that is in good working
order to receive a response.
People can check to see if they are receiving all the postings by checking
the Tango-L archive <https://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/>.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 14:39:03 -0500
From: sharon gates <sharon7301@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>The venues where the milongas take place have licenses to play music to the
>public. Nightclubs, Arts centers, etc.
So that implies that you provide the venue owners with the list of music that you play at your milongas, and they in turn provide that information to the proper royalties collecting agency (ASCAP?), and they in turn send the money to the families of D'Arienzo, DiSarli, Tanturi, Pugliese, or whomever holds the rights to the msuic that you, Manuel like to play at your milongas? If not, then how does the money get down to Argentina?
As for the poor DJs in Buenos Aires who sell a few customized CDs to have money for food and rent and the bus ride, well, if they play by the rules and give the royalties to the thieves at SADAIC, how much of that money do you thing will go to the families of the great composers?
That's my two cents.
Cheers to all the aspiring DJs,
Sharon.
Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days!
https://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 15:05:58 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
Sharon, dear tango friends,
I've already expressed my feelings about the sale of home copies of
copyrighted material. As far as the license for playing music in public, my
understanding is that radio stations, clubs, dance halls, theaters,
performing arts venues, etc. purchase a license that allows them to do this.
Some non-profit or educational (and other too I suppose) institutions are
also exempt from the license. It's not a case by case, song by song thing.
DJs and musicians are not expected to have these licenses. The following is
from the FAQ's page of the ASAP website:
>Aren't musicians, entertainers and DJ's responsible for obtaining
permission for music they perform?
>Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain
licenses to perform copyrighted >music or that businesses where music is
performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The
>law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of
music are legally responsible. Since it is >the business owner who obtains
the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who
obtains >the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing
business.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Just trying to help another tanguero
> Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> >The venues where the milongas take place have licenses to play music to
the
> >public. Nightclubs, Arts centers, etc.
>
> So that implies that you provide the venue owners with the list of music
that you play at your milongas, and they in turn provide that information to
the proper royalties collecting agency (ASCAP?), and they in turn send the
money to the families of D'Arienzo, DiSarli, Tanturi, Pugliese, or whomever
holds the rights to the msuic that you, Manuel like to play at your
milongas? If not, then how does the money get down to Argentina?
>
> As for the poor DJs in Buenos Aires who sell a few customized CDs to have
money for food and rent and the bus ride, well, if they play by the rules
and give the royalties to the thieves at SADAIC, how much of that money do
you thing will go to the families of the great composers?
>
> That's my two cents.
>
> Cheers to all the aspiring DJs,
> Sharon.
>
>
>
> Try AOL and get 1045 hours FREE for 45 days!
> https://free.aol.com/tryaolfree/index.adp?375380
>
>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:59:10 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
Sharon wrote:
>So that implies that you provide the venue owners with the list
>of music that you play at your milongas, and they in turn provide
>that information to the proper royalties collecting agency
>(ASCAP?), and they in turn send the money to the families of
>D'Arienzo, DiSarli, Tanturi, Pugliese, or whomever holds the
>rights to the msuic that you, Manuel like to play at your
>milongas? If not, then how does the money get down to Argentina?
The licenses for recorded music that is played in clubs are blanket
licenses. They cover all music. A playlist is unnecessary. BMI has a
reciprocal agreement with SAIDAC which allows BMI to collect licensing
fees for Argentine music played in clubs in the United States and SAIDAC
to collect licensing fees for U.S. music played in Argentina.
Whether the licensing royalties reach the families of the artists is a
matter between the licensing agencies and the artists. By the way,
Francisco Canaro help set up SAIDAC to protect the interests of composers
and recording performers, such as himself.
With best regards,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 21:27:53 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Just trying to help another tanguero
Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>The venues where the milongas take place have licenses to play music to
the
>public. Nightclubs, Arts centers, etc.
This isn't the case in many places here in Oregon. Many of our venues
are just dancefloors. They don't even have sound equipment, we have to bring
our own. In this case it is the legal responsibility of the DJ that is
playing the music to pay his dues to ASCAP. I know of at least one DJ here
that is professional and serious about his craft and does pay the ASCAP
royalties.
J
