4185  2? worth from a beginner

Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 06:13:13 -0700
From: Robert Wallace <rwal102086@ameritech.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] 2? worth from a beginner
To: tango-l@mit.edu

I have been taking A Tango lessons for about three months and
monitoring the list for for the same time. What a valuable resource
the list is for new dancers. However, this has been my experience
since falling "head over heels" in love with this dance, no pun
intended. I have been taking my lessons at a local college in the
evenings about twice and sometimes three times a week. So far, I have
been exposed to six different instructors of various experience
levels. The difference between the instructors is tremendous and
varies a great deal. Sometimes I just want to quit because I can't
learn well from a couple the instructors. Their ability to
communicate in English is terrible and they become impatient when the
students don't pick up on the lesson quickly. Unfortunately, I can't
do much about the quality of instruction nor the variety of
"teachers". So here I am feeling very insecure in the dance, little
if any repertoire to use, and left with the impression that the
university would rather promote the lessons to only "young handsome
leads". The lessons vary a great deal in quality from class to class
and the price varies from $3.00 for the students to $15.00 for adults
from one of the more respected instructors.

Already, I have observed that there are instructors and students
alike that I just don't want to dance with. The most important
quality I look for in an instructor is how they communicate. Can they
communicate well and read the feedback from an inexperienced student
and understand the student's confusion when learning something new.
Secondly, I look at how well they dance on the floor when they are
not instructing. Lacking much experience, I am easily impressed but I
have several tapes and CDs of some famous A Tango dancers and use
them as a guide or model. So far, with the seven different
instructors, I have been impressed with only one. He is great and
makes me feel good about my progress. He gives a four hour seminar
every few months and I will be taking another seminar from him in
June. I live for that seminar and know that I will be able to "knit
together" from his teaching and move to a new higher level.

Overall, the progress I am making is very slow and am somewhat
bewildered and confused. I don't have enough confidence to even
attend a Milonga yet, but I go and watch. I know eventually I'll
learn because I'm committed to learning and dedicated to dancing
well. In the meantime, reading your posts is good but I am sometimes
embarrassed for the way some "flame" the viewpoints of others. I
would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you may pass along. The
tango community is so small in Columbus, Ohio that we can't even get
enough dancers together to go for coffee after the lessons. Many of
you are so fortunate to be able to live near large centers of A Tango
dance and to be able to learn from the "greats". I suppose someday
I'll have to make the pilgrimage to BA just to see how they dance there.

To comment on the open vs close embrace issue... my best instructor
teaches open embrace 90% of the time but has instructed us in close
embrace a few times. However, few if any of the followers want to do
close embrace that it becomes a mute issue. Since I'm large and
"portly" few followers are comfortable with me rubbing my belly
against theirs. But I'm working on that and that's another story. I
think close embrace is beautiful and hope to be able to add it to my
routine.

Flame away,

Robert Wallace


"If you would not be forgotten
As soon as you are rotten,
Either write things worth reading,
Or do things worth writing."

-Ben Franklin

Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 10:39:14 -0500
From: "Ed Doyle" <doyleed@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] 2? worth from a beginner
To: "Robert Wallace" <rwal102086@ameritech.net>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<183484970605010839q13ea5533i884ab7aa7f594933@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Robert,

I too am a beginner (about one year of tango experience) and I too am
addicted to it.

You make a lot of good points in your post. I will address a few that
struck a chord with me because I have just been or am there too.

I too was hesitant about going to milongas, and just wanted to take
lessons. When I finally did go to a milonga, it was a disaster - I
had no skill to get around the floor and felt I was always in the way
of other leaders. But I have learned, you MUST take lessons, go to
practicas, and go to milongas. Each play an important part in learning
tango. Go to the milongas and try to dance as much as you can. It
will be hard at first as most experienced followers do not want to
dance with beginners. This is sad, as we need them in order for us to
get better. I have found if when you approach an experienced
follower, if you tell them you admire their dancing, you are a
beginner, and would they just do one dance with you - not a whole
tanda, often they will commit to one dance. For a while, you may have
to be satisfied with just dancing one dance out of a tanda. Also,
look around for ladies that are sitting and watching, particularly
older ladies. While you make think it would be neat to dance with the
young sexy girls, if you really want to learn tango, I find it is the
older ladies that know how to dance and want to dance and sometimes
will help a beginner. You can dance with the young sexy girls later,
they will always be there. Anyway - try to dance as often as you can.
If there is any way you can find a practice partner to go to a
practica with you, try to just work on one or two things at a time.
Ask the lady if there is something she would like to practice. Often
ladies have something they would like to practice or improve, but they
only get a chance now and then when someone leads them in it. An
example is the molinnette in both directions (clockwise and
counterclockwise). I have found a number of ladies that want to
practice this and will ask me to lead this so they can practice (be
careful not to overdo is and get them dizzy).

I too have experienced instructors that conflict with each other, some
that speak terrible English, some that are very impatient and seem to
make fun of me, and some that are wonderful, caring, and very helpful.
My advice, is take as many lessons as you can from as many
instructors as you can. Try to take the best and leave the rest. i.e.
do what works for you, but try it all.

Don't let tango-l frustrate you. There are many strong opinions voiced
here, most based on different personal experiences and different
cultures, backgrounds, geographic locations, purists, and some who
just like talk (write). Again, this dance is your dance - dance it
the way it works for you - be that close embrace, open embrace,
elastic embrace. The most important thing is that you, your partner,
the music, the floor, the other dancers all connect. If you are
lucky, you will have a beautiful tango moment, or moments, which is
what keeps all of us coming back for more and more and more.

So Robert, keep at it. Dance as much as you can, listen to the music
as much as you can, work on your posture, read and learn, but don't
stress out over it. Above all, dance from your heart. Feel it, and
don't try to emulate anyone else. Do what works for you.

Best of Luck

Ed

On 5/1/06, Robert Wallace <rwal102086@ameritech.net> wrote:

> I have been taking A Tango lessons for about three months and
> monitoring the list for for the same time. What a valuable resource
> the list is for new dancers. However, this has been my experience
> since falling "head over heels" in love with this dance, no pun
> intended. I have been taking my lessons at a local college in the
> evenings about twice and sometimes three times a week. So far, I have
> been exposed to six different instructors of various experience
> levels. The difference between the instructors is tremendous and
> varies a great deal. Sometimes I just want to quit because I can't
> learn well from a couple the instructors. Their ability to
> communicate in English is terrible and they become impatient when the
> students don't pick up on the lesson quickly. Unfortunately, I can't
> do much about the quality of instruction nor the variety of
> "teachers". So here I am feeling very insecure in the dance, little
> if any repertoire to use, and left with the impression that the
> university would rather promote the lessons to only "young handsome
> leads". The lessons vary a great deal in quality from class to class
> and the price varies from $3.00 for the students to $15.00 for adults
> from one of the more respected instructors.
>
> Already, I have observed that there are instructors and students
> alike that I just don't want to dance with. The most important
> quality I look for in an instructor is how they communicate. Can they
> communicate well and read the feedback from an inexperienced student
> and understand the student's confusion when learning something new.
> Secondly, I look at how well they dance on the floor when they are
> not instructing. Lacking much experience, I am easily impressed but I
> have several tapes and CDs of some famous A Tango dancers and use
> them as a guide or model. So far, with the seven different
> instructors, I have been impressed with only one. He is great and
> makes me feel good about my progress. He gives a four hour seminar
> every few months and I will be taking another seminar from him in
> June. I live for that seminar and know that I will be able to "knit
> together" from his teaching and move to a new higher level.
>
> Overall, the progress I am making is very slow and am somewhat
> bewildered and confused. I don't have enough confidence to even
> attend a Milonga yet, but I go and watch. I know eventually I'll
> learn because I'm committed to learning and dedicated to dancing
> well. In the meantime, reading your posts is good but I am sometimes
> embarrassed for the way some "flame" the viewpoints of others. I
> would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you may pass along. The
> tango community is so small in Columbus, Ohio that we can't even get
> enough dancers together to go for coffee after the lessons. Many of
> you are so fortunate to be able to live near large centers of A Tango
> dance and to be able to learn from the "greats". I suppose someday
> I'll have to make the pilgrimage to BA just to see how they dance there.
>
> To comment on the open vs close embrace issue... my best instructor
> teaches open embrace 90% of the time but has instructed us in close
> embrace a few times. However, few if any of the followers want to do
> close embrace that it becomes a mute issue. Since I'm large and
> "portly" few followers are comfortable with me rubbing my belly
> against theirs. But I'm working on that and that's another story. I
> think close embrace is beautiful and hope to be able to add it to my
> routine.
>
> Flame away,
>
> Robert Wallace
>
>
> "If you would not be forgotten
> As soon as you are rotten,
> Either write things worth reading,
> Or do things worth writing."
>
> -Ben Franklin
>
>
>
>

Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 15:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] 2? worth from a beginner

Hi Robert,

Sean here. Welcome to the tango community. About 7
months ago, I posted a report about the growing tango
scene in Columbus. At the time I was very excited
about your community. Columbus has a vibrant and
growing tango community, and could easily become one
of the tango jewels of the Midwest. I was at another
milonga there April 22nd, and I had a wonderful time.
A friendly crowd (maybe 40 people?), a high level of
dancing and ice cream! It was organized by CATS, the
Columbus Argentine Tango Society (meow) in conjunction
with workshops taught by Ney Melo and Jennifer Brat.
They taught one of the most practical lessons in
musicality that I have ever seen. And I take a lot of
musicality workshops, since I am told that it is not
my strong suit.

I haven't sat in on any classes with the CATS
teachers, but I have danced with their beginning
students, and I can tell you that they are doing
something right! What a rare pleasure. I've danced
with the teachers too, an even rarer pleasure.

In addition to CATS, https://www.tangocats.com/ check
out Tango Bello in Columbus https://www.tangobello.com.
I think they are in Italy at the moment, but they will
be back in Columbus soon enough. Their teaching
philosophy on the welcome page of their website is
great. It should be required reading for all dance
teachers. I've had wonderful dances with Pamela and
Francesco is a pleasure to watch.

I would beware of judging teachers by comparison to
videos of famous dancers. As Sergio has pointed out,
in addition to many styles of social dancing, there is
also a distinction between social and performance
dancing. When these famous stars finish their
exhibition and head to the milonga, their dancing
looks very different. But some local teachers who
emulate the stars don't seem to get the difference. At
least check out videos of as many dancers as you can.
The Tango Video Project www.tangovideoproject.com has
some great examples. By the way, the author of that
website was also at the April 22nd milonga in
Columbus. If you want to meet him in person, head for
the May Madness festival in Ann Arbor
https://www.umich.edu/~umtango/events/madness-may06/.
Not exactly Buenos Aries, but a good low budget
alternative for a beginner. There is always a group
from Columbus there, so you might even get to car
pool. The Denver and Portland Festivals are also great
places to experience good social tango in the US. I
would also recommend you go to these after you have a
bit more confidence, and before you go to BA.

Our goal at PATangoS is to get our students to a level
where they can dance comfortably at a milonga in 6-8
weeks (assuming they show up twice a week and practice
on their own). Obviously, we don?t spend a lot of time
on vocabulary during those first 6 weeks. We mainly
stress the music and communication between partners.
If you have been taking classes 2-3 times a week for 3
months, and you are not comfortable going to a
milonga, then I think there is not a very good fit
between you and your teachers. Part of the problem is
having so many different teachers so quickly. I highly
recommend that everyone study with as many teachers as
they can. But everyone dances and teaches differently.
The conflicting information that you must get from
different teachers can be hard to resolve until you
have a solid foundation. So I recommend that beginners
stick with one teacher for the first month or two,
unless they are clearly not progressing. Then shop
around a bit to find the best fit.

Sean

P.S. If you really can't find what you need in
Columbus, the communities in Pittsburgh, Kent, and
Cleveland are each less than 2 hours from you.
Cincinatti can't be much further. I was at a wonderful
milonga in Cleveland Saturday, with live music from
Eternal Tango.


--- Robert Wallace <rwal102086@ameritech.net> wrote:

I would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you may
pass along. The tango community is so small in
Columbus, Ohio that we can't even get enough dancers
together to go for coffee after the lessons.