1197 Same sex dancing together
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:49:59 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Same sex dancing together
Michael wrote in his tribute to Daniel Trenner: He was a proponent
of same sex partners in classes and students should learn the other
half, i.e. men learn how to follow and women learn to lead. I admit I
thought this was dumb, until I found out it isn't as easy to follow as I
thought. My response: I disagree with the idea of same sex partners in tango or any other dance except for a teacher who is teaching a student. It is commonly held that one can become a better dancer by learning both lead and follow. I agree but this can be done with opposite sex partners. One doesn't need a partner of the same sex. Tango is not just a series of mechanical moves. It is also a dance of artistic interpretation, musicality, connection and passion which depends on the romantic and passionate feelings between a man and a woman. These feelings cannot occur between people of the same sex unless they are gay. Even if they are gay, are they really the same feelings? In the US, we seem to be in a state of eliminating the right side of the brain (the side where art, musicality, connection and passion comes from) and replacing it with strictly left side of the brain mechanical reactions. Tango (or any other dance) is not tango (or dancing) without the use of both sides of our brains. The whole p
erson needs to be involved to create an authentic and rewarding experience. Warm RegardsTango Guy
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 15:05:19 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Same sex dancing together
I don't believe that Michael necessarily meant that one needs to
dance with same sex partners socially, but it's great for learning
purposes. In any case, people dance tango for different reasons and
that should be respected, as long as it's consensual.
There is, however, a physical component that guys typically overlook.
Men are physically larger than women, for the most part, and it's
often difficult for a woman to lead a guy around unless the guy
already knows how to follow well (unlikely).
When men start leading other men around, I hope it awakens some sense
of how easy it is for them to brutalize women without realizing it.
That is probably Daniel's greatest gift to us - that realization of
brutality.
I also thank Daniel for his dedication and passion to tango. He's
made such a difference.
Trina
--- Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> Michael wrote in his tribute to Daniel Trenner: He was a proponent
> of same sex partners in classes and students should learn the other
> half, i.e. men learn how to follow and women learn to lead. I admit
> I
> thought this was dumb, until I found out it isn't as easy to follow
> as I
> thought. My response: I disagree with the idea of same sex
> partners in tango or any other dance except for a teacher who is
> teaching a student. It is commonly held that one can become a
> better dancer by learning both lead and follow. I agree but this
> can be done with opposite sex partners. One doesn't need a partner
> of the same sex. Tango is not just a series of mechanical moves.
> It is also a dance of artistic interpretation, musicality,
> connection and passion which depends on the romantic and passionate
> feelings between a man and a woman. These feelings cannot occur
> between people of the same sex unless they are gay. Even if they
> are gay, are they really the same feelings? In the US, we seem to
> be in a state of eliminating the right side of the brain (the side
> where art, musicality, connection and passion comes from) and
> replacing it with strictly left side of the brain mechanical
> reactions. Tango (or any other dance) is not tango (or dancing)
> without the use of both sides of our brains. The whole p
> erson needs to be involved to create an authentic and rewarding
> experience. Warm RegardsTango Guy
>
>
>
>
> to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.patangos.org/
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 18:26:59 -0500
From: Bibi Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Same sex dancing together
A list member wrote >Tango ... is also a dance of artistic interpretation,
musicality, connection and passion which depends on the romantic and
passionate feelings between a man and a woman.<
If that is the case, I guess I must first develop romantic and passionate
relationship with EVERY male dancer I have ever or will dance with. Then
may be after that, I can generate artistic intrepretation, musciality and
connection. <grin>
Tango is not just a series of mechanical moves.<
Contrarily, many times I found myself doing non-musical aerobic excercise
with male dancers <grin>
Something is missing in this picture....
Respectfully disagreeing,
BB
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:38:52 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Same sex dancing together
Bibi wrote:
>>A list member wrote >Tango ... is also a dance of
artistic interpretation,
musicality, connection and passion which depends on
the romantic and
passionate feelings between a man and a woman.<
>If that is the case, I guess I must first develop
romantic and passionate
relationship with EVERY male dancer I have ever or
will dance with.
You don't have to, but it helps. For the three minutes
while you're on the dance floor, you belong to that
person, body and soul. You know, the "three minute
love affair". :)
>Then
may be after that, I can generate artistic
intrepretation, musciality and
connection. <grin>
I don't know why, but it sure seems to work that way.
Beats me. Haven't you noticed how some couples seem to
be more "inspired" on the dance floor than others?
>Tango is not just a series of mechanical moves.<
Contrarily, many times I found myself doing
non-musical aerobic excercise
with male dancers <grin>
You want to make sure you never dance with that guy
EVER again!!! ;)
Luda
P. S. Bibi, we've belabored this issue previously on
the List. Endlessly. Many times. I'll write more to
you privately.
=====
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.
Anonymous
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:39:42 -0600
From: Russell E Bauer <russell_bauer@LYCOS.COM>
Subject: Re: Same sex dancing together
Dear Tango Guy,
What a bunch of nonsense!!!
Russell Bauer
Denver, CO
--
On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:49:59
Tango Guy wrote:
>>My response: I disagree with the idea of same sex partners in tango or any other dance except for a teacher who is teaching a student. It is commonly held that one can become a better dancer by learning both lead and follow. I agree but this can be done with opposite sex partners. One doesn't need a partner of the same sex. Tango is not just a series of mechanical moves. It is also a dance of artistic interpretation, musicality, connection and passion which depends on the romantic and passionate feelings between a man and a woman. These feelings cannot occur between people of the same sex unless they are gay. Even if they are gay, are they really the same feelings? In the US, we seem to be in a state of eliminating the right side of the brain (the side where art, musicality, connection and passion comes from) and replacing it with strictly left side of the brain mechanical reactions. Tango (or any other dance) is not tango (or dancing) without the use of both sides o
f our brains. The whole p
>erson needs to be involved to create an authentic and rewarding experience. Warm RegardsTango Guy>>
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:26:19 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Same sex dancing together
Dear Russell, Would you please expand on your statement? Do you really think everything I have said is nonsense or just parts? Which parts? I really need a very full, detailed and objective critique from you. If I'm to possibly agree, I need to understand your full thinking. Otherwise, your response is pointless and can be construed as a personal attack. SmilesTango Guy
Russell E Bauer <russell_bauer@LYCOS.COM> wrote:Dear Tango Guy,
What a bunch of nonsense!!!
Russell Bauer
Denver, CO
--
On Thu, 24 Apr 2003 14:49:59
Tango Guy wrote:
>>My response: I disagree with the idea of same sex partners in tango or any other dance except for a teacher who is teaching a student. It is commonly held that one can become a better dancer by learning both lead and follow. I agree but this can be done with opposite sex partners. One doesn't need a partner of the same sex. Tango is not just a series of mechanical moves. It is also a dance of artistic interpretation, musicality, connection and passion which depends on the romantic and passionate feelings between a man and a woman. These feelings cannot occur between people of the same sex unless they are gay. Even if they are gay, are they really the same feelings? In the US, we seem to be in a state of eliminating the right side of the brain (the side where art, musicality, connection and passion comes from) and replacing it with strictly left side of the brain mechanical reactions. Tango (or any other dance) is not tango (or dancing) without the use of both sides o
f our brains. The whole p
>erson needs to be involved to create an authentic and rewarding experience. Warm RegardsTango Guy>>
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:28:33 -0500
From: Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Same sex dancing together
In response to Tango Guy, who said, in part
<<<<I disagree with the idea of same sex partners in tango or any other
dance except for a teacher who is teaching a student. It is commonly
held that one can become a better dancer by learning both lead and
follow. I agree but this can be done with opposite sex partners. One
doesn't need a partner of the same sex. Tango is not just a series of
mechanical moves. It is also a dance of artistic interpretation,
musicality, connection and passion which depends on the romantic and
passionate feelings between a man and a woman.>>>>
And also Russell, who said in whole,
<<<<<What a bunch of nonsense!!!>>>>>>
I most definitely agree with Russell, but yes, maybe he should have
detailed his objections to this opinion a little better.
Here in Houston we have a definite shortage of competent leaders, so we
have many of our followers learning how to lead, and dancing together at
nearly all of our milongas and practicas. I can say unequivocally that
those women who have learned how to lead are among the highest quality
followers in Houston, and that I don't mind them dancing together at
all. On the contrary, I appreciate their dedication, their talent, the
beauty of their dance, and the fact that it helps keep some of the
followers dancing, when there are not enough leaders to go around.
And, on the other side of the coin, I've had great fun dancing with
other men, especially during birthday dances (!!!), and during
practicas. I feel I can learn a lot from following, or leading, someone
who usually dances on the same side as I do. Female followers generally
have no idea what is involved in leading tango, while most good leaders
have not only knowledge of leading, but at least a little also of
following, so that two males can benefit twicefold from dancing
together on occasion. And have I not heard that the formative years of
Argentine Tango involved much of this; men dancing with men!!! At a
recent Sunday night practica here, we had 5 or 6 of Houston's finest
male leaders dancing only with each other, and having a blast. And if
you're ever in Houston, you've got to be there! It is a great time!
Yes, Tango Guy; tango is
<<<<<< a dance of artistic interpretation, musicality, connection and
passion which depends on the romantic and passionate feelings between a
man and a woman.>>>>>>>>
But, to truly appreciate and be able to generate this feeling, to make a
woman melt in my arms, to have a dance that is so heavenly that we lose
ourselves, to experience the sight of a tear falling from a follower's
eye after a genuinely magical dance requires many years of hard work and
practice. I've seen a follower cry after a great dance with a great
leader. I'm not a great leader yet, but I can lead skillfully with my
chest up, I don't look down, I always consider my partner first, and I
can usually make the dance a fairly artful interpretation of the music,
while also demonstrating a respect for my fellow dancers by adhering to
the rules of floorcraft and navigation. My goal? To be that great
follower, the one that can move a woman to uncontrollable tears of
happiness; the result of being led in a consummate manner so skilled, so
intuitive, so considerate, that her job of following becomes so natural
that she can be lost in the trance, the music, the feeling, and not have
to think of anything else but the ecstasy.
I know that any and all of the practice I can find will eventually turn
me into that great follower, the one that can move a woman to tears of
happiness. If it helps to dance and practice with a few men on the way
to realizing that goal, great! Give me some more good leaders to
follow!!!!!
Michael Figart II
Pres, Tango Houston
michaelfigart@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 11:31:47 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Same sex dancing together
Dear Russell, I have been looking forward to your critique of my comments. I always value what other people have to say. It helps me to formulate ideas better and to be clearer in my thinking even if I don't come to agree with you. Warm RegardsTango Guy
Russell E Bauer <russell_bauer@lycos.com> wrote:Tango Guy,
I'm still working on it. Still at work and it's past 8. Got to work late.
Basicly tho, I don't buy the left brain/right brain stuff. I think the popularize version is very different from the scientific version of the two hemispheres of our brains.
But that's perhaps getting away from your point. I think your point is that you can't have "artistic interpretation, musicality, connection and passion" without romatic feelings. That I think is nonsense.
Sincerely,
Russell
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Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:55:08 -0600
From: Russell E Bauer <russell_bauer@LYCOS.COM>
Subject: Re: Same sex dancing together
Dear Tango Guy,
There is not a lot to say. You said that one can't have artistic interpretation, musicality, connection and passion without romatic feelings. I think that is nonsense.
Others have responded to this. I didn't see any reason to add anything. They all did a pretty good job.
I can have musicality, connection and passion without romantic feelings. I know this from experience. when I'm dancing with someone who I don't have any romantic feelings for, my musicality and connection doesn't elude me. It's about the same whether I'm dancing with someone I have romantic feelings for or not.
I have had passion for lots of things. I love playing tennis and I would say I have a passion for playing tennis. And it does not have anything to do with playing against or having as my doubles partner someone I have a romantic passion for. I don't see any connection between romantic feelings and my passion for tennis.
I don't know what else to say. Your assertion seems to me so obviously nonsense, that I really don't see any reason to say much.
Russell Bauer
Denver, CO
--
On Thu, 1 May 2003 11:31:47
Tango Guy wrote:
>Dear Russell, I have been looking forward to your critique of my comments. I always value what other people have to say. It helps me to formulate ideas better and to be clearer in my thinking even if I don't come to agree with you. Warm RegardsTango Guy
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Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:28:48 -0700
From: "Joseph L. Moore" <eroom_hpesoj@MAILBLOCKS.COM>
Subject: Fw: Re: [TANGO-L] Same sex dancing together
I would have to agree with Russell about his statement below. A good
romantic connection in a Tango does enhance the enjoyment for me. But
essentially, when I am able to let the music absorb me, the "artistic
interpretation, musicality, connection and passion" flows most
naturally.
The compelling part of the Tango, I find, is the almost subliminal
effect the music has in choreographing the interaction between the
partners. A shared conversation defined by the feel of the music.
Can't beat it.
. . . . .
" But that's perhaps getting away from your point. I think your point
is that you
can't have "artistic interpretation, musicality, connection and
passion" without
romatic feelings. That I think is nonsense.
Sincerely,
Russell "
